SPL : Sha Po Lang. by Wilson Yip (2005). Review from the Hong Kong 2-Disc DVD.

Reader Comments

1. Badtz 01/23/2006 @ 3:48am

   I bought this DVD based solely on all the raves it got on this website. I finally got to watch it this weekend and I have to say, it certainly didn’t live up to the amount of hype given to it. Yes, the lighting and production values are very good. But I could say that about a lot of movies. Beautiful shots of beaches and street lamps lighting alleways don’t make a great movie.

   In my opinion, the film doesn’t do a very good job of developing the fantastic story it has at its core. It just feels so rushed, like they are trying to cram so many great subplots into 60 minutes, so that they can spend the last 30 minutes fighting. I would much rather have seen the story fleshed out a little more in exchange for less fighting at the end, or maybe just in addition to it.

   It wasn’t terrible, but it wasn’t great. It had the ingredients to be great, but the filmmakers didn’t take advantage. It’s a watered down Infernal Affairs, with 30 minutes of martial arts fighting tacked onto the end.

2. Oldnik 01/23/2006 @ 4:00am

   I purchased this DVD after succumbing to Twitch’s relentless enthusing, and frankly I cannot understand why such a massive amount of copy has been written on this film! sure it’s very enjoyable and has some great action/fight scenes, and is well shot, but the story is so one dimensional and predictable, I dunno, maybe I was expecting a HK version of Heat with all the hype I’ve read?

   Don’t get me wrong, I liked this movie, a great popcorn movie but no classic by any stretch of the imagination on first viewing, I’ll give it another look see soon, and see if it warrants re-evaluation.

3. Jason 01/23/2006 @ 5:45am

   i really liked the film, had some old school touches, i like the hype and it does deserve it, because i’m tired of seeing popstars try to do acting and martial arts, so i agree with the twitch team on this review, just take the movie in and comprehend how it can change the hk industry for the good and i hope it does, peace out everyone and take care

4. Hugo 01/23/2006 @ 6:25am

   Some spoilers, just to let people know.Thank god I’m not the only one wondering what all the hype was about after seeing this movie. The action is great, that is without a doubt, and Yen and Hung show you how to do it right but the story is laughable to the point of absurdity. I wholeheartedly agree that the story and chracterizations are super rushed, and am I the only one that was scratching their head as to why they could not hold Hung for one day after he’s seen on screen at least beating to near death a cop and for attacking and kicking the ass of 3 cops when they went to arrest him, this isnt an offense? And the ending? Was this supposed to be anything other than a laugh?

5. logboy 01/23/2006 @ 6:51am

   the faults in the film are typical of HK production values, budgets and time constraints - forgive it the almost inevitable faults and there’s a perfectly good and potentially (in terms of HK or otherwise) revolutionary movie in there : be it action entertainment films or any other level between ‘lowest common denominator’ and any supposed upper level you care to imagine. as for ‘twitchs relentless enthusiasm’ : there’s no such person as twitch, it’s simply a banner for a whole host of individuals with something in common - an interest in a variety of foreign, small, and odd movies which sometimes overlaps. hype is such a bizarre concept, its usually down to an individuals lack of perspective on what they’re reading, an inability to see through comments made from a moments thought, or to determine where the true information is within whats being said, to not realise a moments writing doesn’t have be taken as a permenant record of gospel or some kind of ‘ultimate guidance’ ; from a writers perspective i (like anyone) am bound to be enthusiastic about films and its here in text so it somehow is regarded as being more powerful, and that is very very odd if you dont realise i am no different to the thousands who read the site - in the end, if you fall for supposed hype (i.e a few peoples comments, like i said recently in relation to forums and online discussions, “...if a few dozen peoples brief comments we’re ever hype - well, only if you misunderstand the brief nature of comments resulting from people all too often typing with their two index fingers..."). as for reviews and coverage, well sometimes news trickles and sometimes it flows, sometimes people misunderstand we post about our interests primarily but from a perspective of knowing its of interest to others. nobody here writing for twitch should necessarily be automatically regarded as the leaders of anyones tastes or some kind of deity of film : were the ones willing to spend the time spreading news and views (as shared with us by readers), and plenty of others are elsewhere too… we, like anyone, are entitled to our opinions as individuals, and we, like anyone else, can have differing opinions : know that when you read about films or anything you might take either as information / ‘hype’ and then you can know that your opinion may likely vary.

6. x 01/23/2006 @ 8:06am

   well said. People often mistake ‘excitement’ for ‘hype’.

   You could say I’m ‘hyping’ The King and The Clown now, or some might think so. No, I’m simply excited about the film, and I can’t wait to get my hands on it. Hype is what production companies do to push their films, I have nothing to gain from ‘pushing’ or ‘bashing’ films, and it’s the same for all others Twitch writers. It’s simply a case of people being excited about something. If you follow an industry with a certain level of interest, then anything which might put the industry in a more positive position will make you excited.

   Todd, Kurt and the others who liked SPL were probably longtime fans of HK Cinema, so in seeing SPL, that might have made them excited, hoping in the future there’ll be more films like that, and that the industry will follow that trend.

   Same with me and The King and The Clown. We need more films like that, focused on acting and storytelling. Of course I haven’t seen the film yet (well, I’ve seen a 70 minutes documentary on it from TV, so it almost feels like watching it all), and it might turn disappointing, but everything I’ve read (A LOT) and seen about it makes me excited. And I write about that. Simple, end of story.

   There’s no hype. We’re not making any money off of this.

7. Dan 01/23/2006 @ 8:13am

   As an action film, SPL gets an A. The fight sequences were jaw dropping and well choreographed. I wish I could say the same thing about the plot. For the plot, it gets an F. Some scenes were just excruciating, especially the Donnie Yen subplot with the mentally retarded man. Other scenes felt so tacked on (the fathers and their children scene). There were also little things that made me dislike this movie (the placement of the car at the end, Yen’s dress during the flasback, etc.). Yes, there POTENTIALLY IS a good movie in there (probably a great movie) but director Yip doesn’t have the skills to execute it.

8. Badtz 01/23/2006 @ 9:00am

   I’m sorry. I love this site, so I don’t want to criticize too heavily.. but.. come on. You cannot possibly say that this website has not hyped SPL. I don’t care if it comes from one person, or 10 people, this site has hyped SPL. Let me list you some quotes from an article, posted on this very site, announcing the pre-order of the DVD:

   “I am on record saying that it is the best Hong Kong action film of the past decade, Infernal Affairs included..”

   “..seeing this film was equal to our first viewings of John Woo’s The Killer.”

   “This film goes well beyond ‘recommended’ territory into absolutely essential.”

   “Pre-Order Sha Po Lang now or risk my wrath.”

   Then, on top of that, you guys posted an article a few days later basically touting how YesAsia was your #1 advertiser.

   I like this site, I do. It was my decision to buy the DVD, and I don’t blame anyone. And I enjoyed it, just not as much as your site led me to believe I should have. But come on.

9. Kurt 01/23/2006 @ 9:32am

   Some of us here at Twitch cut our teeth on foreign cinema in the late 80s, early 90s with the HK action cinema of John Woo and Ringo Lam (and to a lesser extent Jackie Chan & Tsui Hark)...When a film comes along which rekindles the giddiness of early viewings of A Better Tomorrow, The Killer, Hard Boiled or City on Fire, it is going to get us fired up. SPL did just that, it had many of the hallmarks of that era, with a crisp new style, and brutal fights. It also has enough of a sense of humour that it knows where to draw the line between taking itself seriously (fights) and making it overblown (set-ups/drama)...That kind of Melodrama (the retarded kid, the fathers/daughters bits) and such is just so much a part of the sub-genre that it almost feels necessary…

10. Kurt 01/23/2006 @ 9:35am

    And....I was sitting beside Todd at the screening of the film, trust me, he was as giddy as a school boy for the entire screening. It was unbridled enthusiasm for letting others take the same trip down memory lane (and the fact that other than Infernal Affairs, it is the first major step towards revitalizing that industry) that has driven the enthusiasm for SPL. Believe me when I say it is genuine.

11. x 01/23/2006 @ 9:47am

    “Then, on top of that, you guys posted an article a few days later basically touting how YesAsia was your #1 advertiser.”

    Why? Did you think the site runs on donations from the White House? Come on, let’s not be childish. Hosting a popular site costs a lot of money, and it’s not like we told you to buy crap. If it’s not as good as you expected, that’s fine (haven’t seen it myself, but I have the DVD coming), but to go from there to saying we’re pushing SPL to get some YesAsia referral fees, that’s both lame and borderline offensive.

12. pms 01/23/2006 @ 9:52am

    [!! Warning, contains spoilers !!]

    I agree strongly with the people who were, after having read (the) four reviews of SPL, very very dissapointed with the film.

    I really really like this website for its ambitious cover of asian films and its layout and the people who seem to frequent it.

    But I am of the same opinion as many here, I might not have seen everything, or even most stuff that has come out of HK. But I am a big fan of the John Woo era films and several later films.

    SPL does not hold up to or even gets close to Woos classics like A Better Tomorrow, Hard Boiled or the Killer.

    The characters are simple and one dimentional. The whole fathers day thing just feels like a gimmick to add some human interest to a story that is basically written around 3 actions sequences.

    These seqences are good but *that* good. ( I’d rather rewatch Ong-Bak

    It does not have the epic momentum that the best John Woo films have, where you feel that the characters slowly but surely, with every bullet wound, are getting closer to their final destiny and those great sentimental backflashes.

    Don’t take peoples criticism the wrong way guys.

    Just watch out for that hypeing feeling.

13. Badtz 01/23/2006 @ 9:57am

    “Why? Did you think the site runs on donations from the White House?”

    Yeah, that’s exactly what I thought.

    “Come on, let’s not be childish. Hosting a popular site costs a lot of money, and it’s not like we told you to buy crap.”

    No, but a few posts above this one, it was stated that the site doesn’t make any money. So, which one is it? Do you need money to run the site, or do you not?

    “If it’s not as good as you expected, that’s fine (haven’t seen it myself, but I have the DVD coming), but to go from there to saying we’re pushing SPL to get some YesAsia referral fees, that’s both lame and borderline offensive.”

    If you’re offended by it, then that’s your problem. I’m just pointing out information that supports my point. And if you had read my whole post, you’d see that I like the site. All I’m saying is, you can’t say things like you’ve said about a movie, and push people to the Yesasia pre-order site for the DVD of a movie, and then turn around and say that you were not hyping it.

14. scoville 01/23/2006 @ 9:59am

    There has been alot of hype for this, but what’s wrong with that? Hype is a natural extension of the excitement that many of the people here have for this movie. You must remember that the reviews here are still just opinion, and you can’t blame them for their opinion.

    I must say that after my initial viewing, I was sort of disappointed. It has grown on me, and I’ve been able to forgive some of the movie’s faults. For what it is, it is a wonderful movie. Expectations can mess with things.

    One thing that I still don’t like about the movie is the sound production. The cheesy sound effects used really took me out of the moment at times.

    Also, the guy you are referring to as “Retarded” has brain damage. They aren’t the same thing.

15. x 01/23/2006 @ 10:15am

    you don’t seem to understand. When I say we’re not making any money off of this, it means we write for free. That money simply pays the hosting costs, and the site is not really making any money (or if it does, it goes back into the site).

    We’re not ‘hyping’ a single thing. We’re excited about a film, and we tell you.. Hey! It’s out on DVD. If you planned to buy it, go through the link, and we’ll get some dough off of it, which will help pay the bandwidth that allows us to write about what we like.

    Do you think I care about pointing people to what they ‘should’ buy or not? I just spent an afternoon (no, better, an afternoon on my day off) to write about a film I didn’t like too much to being with. Why did I do it? Cause it’s an important film, and I like talking and writing about this stuff.

    anyone who understands the laws of the net knows that it’s not free. You pay for hosting, and that money has to come from somewhere. In the past it used to be from Todd’s own pockets (so.. like, he was PAYING to write, not getting paid to), now with ads and referrals I suppose it’s a little better. It’s only obvious he’ll point out a few things worth buying every now and then, and even talk about YesAsia. Because it keeps the site from either:

    1) having to be paid from his own pocket alone

    2) turning into a ‘Buy Clothes for Your Favorite Chicken, Only 2.99!) pop-up ad fest

    3) close down and go spend the money on something else.

    If you ‘like’ the site as you say, you wouldn’t even mention YesAsia or something like that. And wouldn’t be so sarcastic about it. End of story

16. denimdemon 01/23/2006 @ 10:32am

    I gave SPL a couple of viewings over the weekend and I’m glad to see that there’s some criticism on the film. I could have easily overanticipated this film due to glowing reviews on Twitch and imdb, but all in all I felt that the film was a huge disappointment. There’s no doubt that the action scenes were exhilarating and even groundbreaking on a martial arts level. Most can agree on that. But the story’s tension is too forced and the “twist” at the end feels so insignificant, that its tragedy is diminished.

    And let me make a controversial point here, but I thought the lighting was incredibly tacky. The colors made me feel like I was watching a glorified episode of CSI: Miami. Perhaps they were trying to create a throwback to John Woo’s 80s action cinema, but the story supposedly took place in a post-Nirvana world, not during the height of “Thriller.” I’d comment on the wardrobe choices, but honestly have no idea what HK fashion was at the time.

    In regards to the “overhyping” argument, the Twitch writers here are getting a little defensive. So what if you’ve overhyped a film? Who cares? You loved it, some others didn’t. There’s some really patronizing statements up on here and in the end, we’re all just silly fanboys. Don’t let such an argument disintegrate into insults.

17. logboy 01/23/2006 @ 10:43am

    “I agree strongly with the people who were, after having read (the) four reviews of SPL, very very dissapointed with the film.” (quoting pms there) - so that’s four reviews versus the individual self-control of thousands of individuals. we must be powerful individuals, not just like any other films fans then. within the readership, i bet theres more than four people who liked the film, on out ‘recommendation’ or not…

    “The characters are simple and one dimentional. The whole fathers day thing just feels like a gimmick to add some human interest to a story that is basically written around 3 actions sequences. These seqences are good but *that* good. ( I’d rather rewatch Ong-Bak ” (again, quoting pms) - it’s as though youve never seen an HK action movie, really. you would think it would go withouth saying, but ive said it twice (in the review and in the subsequent comment) that HK movies have faults. must think positive, but remain objective : i think i managed that…

    “I’m sorry. I love this site, so I don’t want to criticize too heavily.. but.. come on. You cannot possibly say that this website has not hyped SPL. I don’t care if it comes from one person, or 10 people, this site has hyped SPL. Let me list you some quotes from an article, posted on this very site, announcing the pre-order of the DVD:” |(quoting badtz) - here it is then, the site not hyped anything - some individuals have been excited about the movie, and its in print, so why is it not a moments enthusiasm captured ‘in print’? are we not entitled to do that? where’s the level each person will draw between ‘on the ball’ and ‘out of touch’ or ‘passionate’ and ‘clinical and soulless’? do you think (or does anyone for that matter) think we have movies weve seen we havent written about or films we havent ‘knocked’? each individual (and all of us in different locations, on different continents in several cases) post individually, without planning or pre-discussion, from our own thoughts, in our own time, with our honest opinions, out of our efforts and opinions and tastes (thats why things get passed from person to person, why you see i pass things to todd and gom and so on). if there was 100 SPL reviews here, that would not be more opinions on the film than you could gather from numerous other sources in total, the amount you could get if people were more often willing to give substantial and worthwhile opinions on films : they simply aren’t and it part of why twitch is here, to give an outlet to a rosta of individuals that will increase and change over time, and let each do their own thing in an attempt to cover as broad a range of material as possible. the inclusion of a Yesasia link, well i am sure each and every person has their own criteria for retailers, but thats an option there for you if you want to use it (there are others discussed and well known about, i use other sites myslef would you believe - and i also read other sites and take opinions and information from them, there being more to the picture than this site). yes it support the site to a very small extent, a very small extent from what i know, this isnt a profit making business, its todds hobby and it costs him lots of money to try to positively contribute to small films (who hasnt heard about something here they wouldnt have otherwise missed? i am amongst them...) we all think theres a difference to be made from even a few people talking to a great and more regular extent about a broader range of odd, small, foreign and weird films in one location…

18. x 01/23/2006 @ 10:51am

    “In regards to the “overhyping” argument, the Twitch writers here are getting a little defensive. So what if you’ve overhyped a film? Who cares? You loved it, some others didn’t. There’s some really patronizing statements up on here and in the end, we’re all just silly fanboys. Don’t let such an argument disintegrate into insults.”

    Absolutely. What I find a little annoying is this idea we’re pushing stuff we don’t want to, to make some money for the site. Or that we’re being smarmy with recommending films because YesAsia is involved. Which is obviously not the case. That’s the tone I’m against, not the idea someone might disagree with our ‘hyping’. That’s of course only natural. People have different views, and they’re welcome to discuss them.

    I would never ‘cheat’ readers with crap like that. Because I’m a reader myself.

19. Badtz 01/23/2006 @ 10:54am

    Looks like I really hit a nerve, huh?

    You guys overhyped the movie, that’s the end of story. Regardless of your intentions, that’s what you did. I can like the site and still say that.

20. x 01/23/2006 @ 11:02am

    you didn’t ‘just’ say that. The YesAsia stuff was simply a low-blow, and uncalled for.

    Almost feels like we’re hyping ‘The Wesley’s Mysterious File’ and forcing you to buy it. I ‘hype’ only what I like, the rest I might cover it anyway, but I’ll never tell you ‘go buy this, even if it’s crap.’

    If you want to play around that to ‘hit nerves’ (trust me, you hit nothing), feel free. I’m off to eat.

21. denimdemon 01/23/2006 @ 11:08am

    I don’t think Badtz was implying that Twitch was collecting payola from YesAsia, because we all know Todd gets his complimentary hookers from Tartan and then gives the free promotional posters away to the loyal readers.

    So, yeah, let’s not jump down Badtz’s throat because I don’t think he meant ill will. It’s getting a little far in that “Our readers are SO UNGRATEFUL” territory when it shouldn’t be.

22. Hugo 01/23/2006 @ 12:14pm

    Nice to see some back and forth on this but I dont for one minute think that the people at Twitch had nothing but good intentions in recommending the film, I wouldnt take the word “hyping” so defensively, when something is given as much ink as SPL has then it’s hyping, for good or bad. As for the film, I will say that the melodrama and acting bits are par for most HK films, especially in the cops/triads genre but maybe I was expecting a little more seriousness and characterization on Yam’s character other than a hard on for Hung, but then maybe that’s all that’s needed, the explanations and synopsis’ Ive read on the film are more thought out to me than the actual movie was.

23. Kurt 01/23/2006 @ 12:42pm

    “I wouldnt take the word “hyping” so defensively, when something is given as much ink as SPL has then it’s hyping” --- The volume of emails and such discussion going on at Twitch in regards to bringing advertising onto the site and write what you want, etc. etc. Yes, something like this was bound to hit a nerve.

    If Twitch is guilty of anything it is setting the bar of expectations high. I still believe it matches those heights if put into context of HK action/triad/cop Cinema, which every review (i thought) put clearly into context....But maybe not.

24. Kwon 01/23/2006 @ 1:00pm

    common, a review is only a review.

    What Im trying to say and that everyone here truly understands (so why am I saying it?). A review is the reviewers own opinion (Im smart I know). But as you know, in time you learn whos reviews you like and find creditability in. Behind sentences—in good reviews you can find so called “hype”, and personally I like that, I like when the reviewer burn for something and goes nuts over something that he loves for the moment. I love the passion in the written word and in personal reviews and how the reviewer wanna share and give something from his excitment and nearly or maybe pornographic feelin’ moment… Then… Then I can judge or compare the reviews with outhers, decide if I belive the hype or not. Put my personal opinion, references and intellegence to it. If I wanna invest energy or money into it and buy it—and maybe I get deeply disappointed or maybe its worth taking a chance and get a good moment and thinking that the reviewer must be my best friend forever and..and… And in my opinion, I cannot blame the reviewer even if I get disappointed. Ok I can get mad as hell, but then, I’m a fool who took it for more than it is atleast for me. It’s just someone else opinion about something and he didnt kille me to read his opinions or paid me. Yes a reviewer I might start to learn, understand or to somehow trust or not. To eventually build “readers” relation. 

    About the YesAsia, myself understand the reactins very well, Who knows? And what do you wanna belive in your self? But on the other hand, if it would be true (so sad theese kind of “thoughts” occure on a passionate-driven-kind...website like this) the persons creditability (yes I use the “cred” word once again, hopefully I got it right spelled this time) would be deeply hurt and in the end it would be impossible to run this site in the long run. Its brand would be ruined in a minute. And noone would be interested in sharing its unserious information and in that case “sold-out” and lame reviews. And in the run, nothing interesting for YesAsia to invest money in. 

    Hope you understood the overgripping thought about above. Just spontanious written with strange english and with damn speedy thoughts. I dont judge anyone (maybe it sounds like it, but not my intention), just sharing what I feel. The truth is out there!

    Hugs and some commercial multinational asian love to you all out there Hahaha! Damn!

    Kwon

25. Kwon 01/23/2006 @ 1:13pm

    Can not sleep. Read it through. I must be drunk. Saw all bad english and strange sentences. But I know you will understand or at least get mad about it. Me myself (congratualations) knows after all theese years and hours infront of obscure movies that If more than three reviewers rave about a movie. I have to check it out, maybe I will discover their passion about it and have a good sleep, it might be worth it. Or maybe as I get deeply suspicious (people generally always scared to fall out of the que and think different, maybe they miss something) when three raves about it, I personally will suck their brains out because I just discovered that the movie where shit and I wasted my time and money on it. But its a charm in that too… I know they are good hearted, haha! I know they danced their socks off because of the movie that I thought where shit! I think I like it! Its life. I wont belive that shithead again but I will belive in someone else words. They just sort them out theirselves. Thank you and goodnight. Life is short, life is good, take care of these people, they try to be nice and give you a good cup of coffe beyond Blair and Bush.

    yeah Hype, I know that a hype will nowdays more often, last only a few days, then someone discovers something new for the minute to rave about or the hype turns out to be shite! Hypeing is fun! And standing there and waving your fist with everybody else to a hype can be fun to, atleast for the moment of joy!

    To balance things, I want to hype http://www.dvdheaven.com, http://www.dvdfromkorea.com, http://www.dvdpacific.com as I think they are far nicer webshops in my opinion and wallet!

    Be cool and wash your hands. God might be around the corner. Maybe already tonite!

    Kwon—not yet blackmailed.

26. x 01/23/2006 @ 1:29pm

    ok, so did I get all hyper-ventilated about this for nothing? Then, sorry.

    See… a good dinner and everyone’s my friend again. I’m so silly. Anyhow, hope I wasn’t too grating. Now I need sleep.

27. Todd Brown 01/23/2006 @ 1:38pm

    Badtz:

    I’ve personally lost about four thousand dollars running the site thus far and continue to run a loss on a month by month basis. We’re getting close to break even but aren’t there yet. I’m certainly nowhere close to recouping my personal investment. None of the writers are paid for anything. We don’t make money. Twitch currently burns about four hundred gig of bandwidth per month, bandwidth that doesn’t come cheap, and I’ve paid for two professionally done design jobs on the site over the past year to get it up to a level that I’m happy with. We do this for love of film.

    You will find more positive reviews than negative here but that’s simply because I generally don’t bother to invest the energy in talking about something I don’t like. Unless I really LOATHE it, in which case writing about it has its own intrinsic entertainment value ... if you’re suggesting that our using affiliate links to support the site somehow undermines our credibility, well, check the dates on the reviews. The first four SPL reviews - the ones by myself, Mack, Kurt and Peter, all of which are overwhelmingly positive - were written after festival screenings, long before the film was available for purchase. We get a lot of things sent to us for review purposes for free, yes. Some of them we say positive things about, some negative, some we ignore. For an example check my review of Kitamura’s Sky High (the first free disc ever sent to me by Media Blasters .... way to start the relationship off on the right foot) and Mack’s of Dragon Squad (sent for free by YesAsia for review purposes). We call them like we see them. If I had any hint that anyone was being dishonest in what they were writing here they would immediately be dropped from the group of writers.

    As for my comments about SPL, I stand by each and every one of them. You don’t have to agree with me but I love the film and have spoken from the heart about it. But tastes in film, like taste in everything else, is a personal thing and one man’s perfection is another man’s poison. That’s life.

    As for the melodramatic elements of SPL ... sure, those put some people off, but come on, that’s a major part of the Hong Kong action film experience. You seen much Woo? Do I need to remind you how The Killer ends? And yet ask anyone what the top HK action films of all time are and The Killer is inevitably in the top three. It’s a well established part of the genre and that melodramatic element is a major part of what gave SPL that classic feel to me. SPL works within those established bounds and does what it does exceptionally well.

28. Todd Brown 01/23/2006 @ 1:43pm

    ... and Tartan’s been slow on the hookers, lately. Gotta call them on that ...

29. Badtz 01/23/2006 @ 1:55pm

    “I don’t think Badtz was implying that Twitch was collecting payola from YesAsia…

    So, yeah, let’s not jump down Badtz’s throat because I don’t think he meant ill will. It’s getting a little far in that “Our readers are SO UNGRATEFUL” territory when it shouldn’t be.”

    Thanks. And I don’t mean ill will. I don’t think any of my comments were rude or out of line. The writers of the site were collectively backpedaling over their coverage of SPL, and that’s where my comments came from.

    The Yesasia thing is not a low blow. I don’t think anyone at Twitch pushed SPL just to get Yesasia referrals. “X” inferred that from me, I never said it openly. My comments were in reaction to your statement that “We’re not making any money off of this”. Well, you are. It may not be profit, but that article created referrals, that generated money that is used for this site. It’s not about intent, it’s about how things look to the casual observer.

    You guys showered this movie with praise, and as it turns out, not everyone shares your opinions. The fact that you all expect those who didn’t agree to just say “aw shucks” about it is silly.

30. nitty 01/23/2006 @ 2:11pm

    Just got my 2 dvd set a couple days ago of SPL.I’ve since watched it 3 times.As a martial arts junkie I was in heaven.Watching Sammo fight Donnie was like a dream come true for me.Its one of those dream fights me and my friends have been talking about for years.(currently its Tony Jaa vs Jet Li).

    My only small complaint would be I wish the fights were more spaced out and not lumped together in the last half hour.

    I am glad filmmakers are getting away from all the wire fu crap.SPL’s fights reminded me of all the old school Shaw bros/Jackie Chan/Bruce Lee flicks that I grew up on.

    I dont think years from now SPL will be remembered as the film that brought back that old school feeling though.Ong Bak deserves that title imo.

31. Todd Brown 01/23/2006 @ 2:20pm

    Badtz, I don’t think you’re out of line at all. And I never expect people to agree with me ... I enjoy the back and forth and discussion ... and as the guy who was the source of everyone of the quotes you pulled, I aint backpedalling a bit. I love the film. And I’m perfectly comfortable with you saying I hyped it. I had every intention of letting as many people as possible know that I loved it.

32. Donkee 01/23/2006 @ 3:02pm

    Got this after all the glowing reviews on here and i gotta say i liked it alot, however the lighting was badly done and made the production look very cheap and whats up with sammos hair? gotta be the worse hair style i have seen in a decade.

    Watched Election straight afterwards and enjoyed it a whole lot more.

33. denimdemon 01/23/2006 @ 4:45pm

    C’mon, give Sammo a break. You know as a mob boss, no one is going to question any haircut, no matter how bad it is.

    A more important matter is Donnie’s entire all-black, white belt get up that makes him look like an aging emocore hipster. And I wanted to give Wu Jing a tricked out Honda with blue neon lights underneath. He could practice flips off some monstrous spoiler.

    The best example of the bad stylistic choices is when Donnie gears up to confront Sammo in the bar. First, there’s an atomospheric blue SMOKE in the background with heavy spotlights on the action. Then, Donnie prances up to Sammo not to kick his ass, but in the way a doe flirts with a tree thinking it’s a buck. If you watch the scene again and think “Riverdance,” it makes a lot of sense.

34. Flemming Kristensen 01/23/2006 @ 4:59pm

    I bought this DVD on account of the reviews here. It certainly did not disappoint me. No doubt the best I’ve seen from HK since Infernal Affairs, but not better. Style is mature, almost noirish and the acting has improved since the Woo days. The fighting is less effectdriven, more detailed and toned down to less people involved.

    But overall the drama is to melodramatic. Lot’s of scenes where Yip doesn’t do the “less is better” approach. The telephone ringing, fathers day, the baby, the drawn out deaths and the ending that delivers one twist too many. The melodramatic stuff can (perhaps, I’m european) be explained with the difference in culture. Certainly many asian movies has a different tone when it comes to feelings, but to me, it hinders the movie, thus remains a great dark action feature, instead of a sensational gritty one.

    Still, it was a very satisfying movie, hopefully sparking the HK movie industry back on track.

    8/10

35. Donkee 01/23/2006 @ 5:04pm

    denimdemon i was thiniking the same thing about the riverdance scene, a real shame cause in the hands of a different director this could of been a real knockout.

36. quadshock 01/23/2006 @ 6:18pm

    some people talk as though people at Twitch are obligated to write about movies for free, that they are supposed to keep updating the site regardless of costs and such. That’s ridiculous. People at Twitch do what they want, and you leave if you don’t like it. There are plenty of us out here who are happily reading the input here (which some people take as fact, obviously), and we appreciate that a group of people love film enough to maintain a site that actually takes away from their salary rather than add.

    Then to say they’re sellouts or whatever because they tell you that you can support them by clicking the link is downright ungrateful. Rather than pick on this stuff (i still don’t see the problem with finding support… it benefits everyone really) you should scroll down on the main page and see exactly how much effort these put in out of their own interest. Then stop reading if you think they overhype movies because you’ll just be more unhappy with each visit.

    I have yet to see SPL but if I ever do I’ll probably be buying it because I’m excited about it. Thank you for your time.

37. Dan 01/23/2006 @ 7:07pm

    Man, all this fighting in the comments section is getting kinda boring. Todd, Kurt, and the others gave glowing reviews of SPL because of one thing, they saw it BEFORE THE HYPE! While I also saw the film at TIFF, I didn’t like it as much as them. If they say that it’s the best goddamn m*therf*cking HK film in a decade then let them say it! Again I’ll state it, as an action picture it gets a solid A, as a drama it gets a D- or F. I did find the fight scene between Donnie Yen and Wu Jing extremely exhilarating and the Sammo vs. Yen scene amazing but for me, there wasn’t a great story to back it up. I didn’t care for any of the characters at the end. I didn’t care whether they lived or died. Sure, there’s a twist to the ending but I didn’t particularly care about it. I think the comparison to John Woo’s the Killer is apt when the action comes full force it is completely breathtaking. The only difference I see between these two films is again the characters. In SPL, I again did not care for ANY of the characters. In the Killer, the ending was heartbreaking for me. But again, this is my opinion. Guys like Todd, Kurt, Peter, and Mack have an opinion and everyone should respect it. If you’re blaming them for overhyping the movie it’s not their fault, you guys are overhyping it for yourselves.

38. jiggaman 01/23/2006 @ 7:44pm

    after reading all these glowing reviews, I had to order myself a copy. After watching the movie, I was mildly dissapointed. The fighting is top-notch, but the storyline sucked. The sentimental cheese factor was way too high (I still have a huge HK video collection from the 90’s so I’ve seen my share of melodrama). I can see why the reviewers on this site loved the flick so much, it brought back memories of HK action during that decade. I, however, wished HK directors could leave the fluff and melodrama behind and improve on character and plot development. If they could churn out a better script and dialogue like Japan/Korea/Hollywood, then HK movies would definitely take a step forward.

39. Kwon 01/23/2006 @ 10:40pm

    As I can read, seems that the wind has changed. Smelled bitterness before and decieveness, now we can can row the boat. I now what it takes to run this kind of site. Its hell of energy, money, positiveness and a burning flame. Dont forget that we all atleast me, come from different cultures and countrys, there for have different references about whats apealing and good.. Like Woody Allen, mostly gets thumbs down in the states but gaining big public wows in Europe. So… Who are fooled or then ?

    Goodmorning all..

40. logboy 01/24/2006 @ 12:59am

    glad to see my email inbox full this morning, glad theres actually a discussion following a post thats gone on for more than a few comments and with posts that are actually of some length too. also happy that theres variety in them, some perspective. ive been thinking about it since last night, this ‘hype’ thing....

    anyway, can i come up with a definition for ‘hype’? well, if somethings writter without knowledge or understanding but is very positive then i would consider it hype. to regard whats written with enthusiasm as hype would mean having to take individual elements of a writers work out of context of a general understanding of what theyre like. i personally believe everyone here shows more than enough balance and understanding of films. its worth also pointing out that theres no quick-fix solution to developing a taste and understanding of films, it can take years to get there and requires daily effort : theres certainly people visiting the site that may have taken positive elements out of context and then regarded them as evidence that because they used that as recommendation and didnt like the film, then it was hyped. oh dear, really - i imagine and sense that there an incredibly large percentage that know better than to do that, and theres some (clearly) that do exactly that and think that any site they visit should be an ivory tower from which the writers bestow their wisdom and guide you through without anyone requiring any consideration and understanding of their own.

    i dont think i regard anything here as hype. we write both negatively and positively, both balanced and drawn from one side to the other according to our dislike or love. we get excited, we get disappointed, we get improved understanding, we can see things as people that are just like any other film fans, except as writers we’re somehow instantly regarded as your guardians. i dont fancy that responsibility… i am here because we can give a more realistic balanced representation of the bredth of film fans’ tasted, and show theres good everywhere - as well as bad. and i do it for the love of film, nothing else.

    anyway, again i am glad theres been a lot of balance in the discussion. i am not upset, if anything i am overjoyed that more people than usual are showing their faces and putting their thoughts across, as it does sometime feel a little lonely around here, even though i can see the visitor stats turning over…

41. Oldnik 01/24/2006 @ 3:05am

    We all understand the differwence between sheer excitement/enthusiasm and hype, if this was a trashy movie site promoting big hollywood mainstream movies then we would obviously not take any massive coverage on a film with any seriousness, the matter here which has needled people is that maybe we respect your opinions and taste above the norm, and perhaps we feel there’s been some disproportionate and unjust levels of glowing copy written on this film prior to it’s DVD release, which wasn’t matched after viewing.

42. Badtz 01/24/2006 @ 3:06am

    “theres certainly people visiting the site that may have taken positive elements out of context and then regarded them as evidence that because they used that as recommendation and didnt like the film, then it was hyped. oh dear, really - i imagine and sense that there an incredibly large percentage that know better than to do that, and theres some (clearly) that do exactly that and think that any site they visit should be an ivory tower from which the writers bestow their wisdom and guide you through without anyone requiring any consideration and understanding of their own.”

    Wow, what a pompous statement. So, everyone who is pointing out that Twitch put out a lot of hype for SPL is just an idiot who can’t think for themselves, huh? Wow, thanks a lot. Well, it seems as though that idea goes both ways. I get the impression from you guys that you think you do live in some ivory tower, and that you dispense wisdom upon the masses, and no one is ever allowed to question your wisdom from on high.

    I’m finding it comical how defensive the writers of this site are being over the fact that a few people in the comments section felt that Twitch overhyped a movie. Let me explain it to you this way, ok? I don’t regard the hype as evil, or unprofessional. All I’m saying is, this site heaped a lot of praise onto SPL. And I watched it, and apparently some others watched it. And while it was a good movie, we just didn’t feel that it lived up to the raves, the comparisons to other films, and claims like “best HK film of the past decade!!”. In a free society, we’re allowed to voice our opinion on something, just like you’re allowed to write your review.

    I don’t think anyone in this thread has said anything like “man, I trusted you guys and you let me down”, or “man, I once considered Twitch an ivory tower from which all wisdom flows”. All we’re saying is, SPL isn’t as good as this site said it was, and that’s our opinion. I bought the DVD, and I take full responsibility for that. I am not sorry that I bought it, either. As I stated earlier, I liked the movie. I enjoyed the fight scenes. I’ll probably watch it again, in fact.. maybe I’ll even like it more the second time. I just don’t think it was exceptional, at least not as exceptional as the writers of this site collectively made it out to be.

    I appreciate that none of you are making money off this. I’ve read all of your heartbreaking and heroic stories now, you truly are figures worthy of nothing but praise and worship for your sacrifices, I guess. Well, my life is rough, too. So, as a result, I’m not going to pull punches when I comment in your comment section. It seems to me like you guys could all benefit from learning to react to criticism a little better. If you can’t take any kind of comments other than ones that make you feel good about yourselves, then maybe you shouldn’t have a comments section for every post.

43. x 01/24/2006 @ 3:44am

    아이구… again with this?

    I probably misunderstood the weight you put in that YesAsia line, and thought you were accusing us of trying to push the film simply to make a profit, that’s why I got a little red in the face. You said it wasn’t the case, I apologized, end of story.

    I never even tried to imply you can’t come here and contest our opinions, and none of the comments the other made pointed at that. You can certainly do that, hell, you’re encouraged to do so.

    I was taking ‘hype’ as exactly what logboy said, something very commercial and stripped of the passion of writing. We don’t do that. But if you intend(ed) hype as simply talking a lot about a film then, yes, we do that. There’s nothing wrong with that. So if we ‘overhyped’ something in your opinion, you have all the right to contest that.

    and now you’re becoming defensive. You’re the one who started getting itchy about the ‘money’, so let’s just wrap this up friendly: in your opinion a few Twitch writers ‘overhyped’ (drooled would have been fine, see?) SPL. Position accepted, now let’s talk why you feel it’s overhyped. Let’s not descend into smarmy sarcasm about things which have nothing to do with the film.

    Because then I’d get defensive for real, and a little more annoying. OK?

44. kwon 01/24/2006 @ 4:40am

    ...wouldnt be too evil if people earned alot of money out of this site anyway. would be more evil if we had to pay to gain all information. So far.. no one is forcing us to read or contend on this site. But who knows in the future? Internet is endless

    To “hype” things isnt evil. Its art of passion. As long its honest. People loves taking a part or being a part of “hyped” things. It isnt that ugly.

    SPL case. People might feel let down. Or fooled. Or just very very disagree. Thats life.

    And very interesting as long you can discuss the subject in a creative way.

    We should discuss more often about movies. Its good, it will push the quality of the reviews and spread the passion further…

    It was a long time since I saw a really good HK movie. Maybe it was Infernal Affairs #1. Any good HK movies since then?

45. Badtz 01/24/2006 @ 5:07am

    “Because then I’d get defensive for real, and a little more annoying. OK?”

    Is that supposed to be threatening? What are you going to do, type me to death? Well, go ahead. At this point it seems unavoidable, since you don’t seem to be able to react to my comments without getting your feelings hurt.

    Again, I say. You guys should learn to take criticism a little better.

46. x 01/24/2006 @ 5:23am

    -_-. I rest my case.

47. Todd Brown 01/24/2006 @ 5:51am

    There comes a time when people need to simply agree to disagree. We’re pretty much there. If you didn’t enjoy the film as much as I did that’s perfectly fair but if you’re looking for me to change my own position on the film it’s not going to happen. It topped my year end best of list for a reason, I thought it was the best film I saw all year and the best thing to come out of Hong Kong for ages. Like I said before, I stand behind everything I’ve ever said about it.

    Sarcastic comments about our “heartbreaking and heroic stories” are neither necessary nor appreciated. Keep it civil.

48. Geert Jan 01/24/2006 @ 6:56am

    Badtz, I still think you have the wrong idea about this site. Maybe you’re not used to reviewers responding to comments/criticism because on a lot of sites it doesn’t happen. But basicly Twitch is just a blog with a couple of guys giving their opinion about certain movies to start a discussion. If they respond to your comments it’s not becuase you “hit a nerve” or “hurt their feelings”, it’s just that responding and discussing was the whole point of the site to begin with.

    Now what could have been an interesting discussion about the definition of ‘hype’ just becomes childish bickering when you start using the old “oooohh did I hurt your feelings?” argument.

49. Donkee 01/24/2006 @ 11:30am

    Badtz and X are best friends and they are just play fighting to get more people to see the film… dont fool for it people its all just hype.

50. jason 01/24/2006 @ 11:59am

    either way i don’t care whats going on here*lol* i liked it and thats all that mattered.

51. Swarez 01/25/2006 @ 3:55am

    Recieved and watched SPL last night. It was good and if it was my introduction to HK cinema then I would be hooked. The film was no better or worse script wise than most HK cop dramas, very rushed storyline but the action was top notch. Donnie Yen is the motherfucking man and Sammo was a cool bad guy.

    I was hyped for this film because of all the glowing reviews on this site but fortunately I saw this thread and prepared to be let down. I wasn’t but I wasn’t blown away either.

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