Kenny Talks. Spenny Tries To Slip The Occassional Word In From Time To Time And Gets Very Frustrate

TB: So you guys are just gearing up for your second season on Showcase?

Kenny: Third.

TB: The third already?

Kenny: Good research skills.

TB: I’m ashamed.

[I recant my shame. This is the third season overall but the second for Showcase. Thus I was correct.]

Kenny: It’s okay. For some people we’re still in the first. We’ve done fifty two shows.

Spenny: And been on Canadian Idol.

Kenny: Fifty two episodes.

TB: Do you sing?

Spenny: A little bit. I actually did sing on the set of Canadian Idol.

Kenny: He made me sing. The worst fucking … The Band. This guy’s trying to relate to our youth demographic and he sings something from The Band?

Spenny: Well, I love The Band. Levon Helm has got a farm in upstate New York and it costs five hundred dollars but he does concerts once a week and everybody comes. It’s old school.

Kenny: I wouldn’t even pay five hundred bucks to throw a pie at Hitler and I’m Jewish.

TB: There’s no way to follow that.

Kenny: Yeah.

TB: Tell me a little bit about your backgrounds.

Kenny: Spenny and I are best friends, went to high school together. We started making documentary films because we couldn’t afford anything else and no one would give us any grants. Actually we didn’t even apply for any grants.

Spenny: Well we got a grant for one but they took it away.

Kenny: Yeah, that was like three hundred bucks from the NFB. So anyway, we made this movie in 1996 [Pitch] about Spenny and I trying to sell a script in Hollywood. It was a really heartfelt documentary about the migration of Canadian writers and filmmakers to Hollywood. And everybody was in the film. It was the first Canadian film with Al Pacino. Everybody’s in it: Pacino, Stoltz, Whoopi, Neil Simon, Roger Ebert, Fred Williamson. It had like seventeen stars in it and the film did really well when it premiered in Toronto. And then we went to LA because Will Smith had seen the film and loved it and they gave us twenty g’s each to come to LA and pitch TV. Our movie was really about two writers trying to sell a script in Hollywood and when we got there it was just so dog eat dog and fucked up for us that we just wiggled the concept a little and it became first one to sell their script wins. And that’s really where the show came out of.

In the end it’s all luck. People always say that Hollywood is relationships and persistence but it’s all just luck. Shitty stuff gets made.

Spenny: I agree partly with that.

TB: So you went from the documentaries to being after school on the CBC.

Kenny: Yeah. That too. But we still think of our show – or I do, anyway - as independent short films. It still follows the old school, Canadian, NFB type format: cinema verite, aggressive editing. It’s like the old Hinterland Who’s Who.

TB: Only with pain and humiliation.

Kenny: Yeah, exactly. Instead of The Woodchuck …

Spenny: It’s The Spenny …

Kenny: … The Fucking Loser. It’s two dysfunctional friends as their relationship totally deteriorates for your entertainment.

TB: How did you make the transition over to Showcase?

Kenny: Well, we went to number one on CBC. No shit. We were fucking huge in Canada with no publicity, no nothing, and after about thirteen episodes they killed it. They cancelled it.

TB: They’ve got a good history of doing that. Smart people over there.

Kenny: Yeah, and now we’re actually back on the air with CBC. They’ve picked us up again. But this is after Showcase picked us up and I guess we’re doing well enough there that CBC felt the need to put us back on the air. But we love Showcase, they’re letting us do shit that I can’t even believe …

TB: I was going to say, it must be a big change from being after school on CBC, who are known for stifling things and known for not really knowing how to handle their comedies …

Spenny: Well, the fact that we were ever picked up by them in the first place and that they ordered twenty six episodes …

Kenny: Nobody ever orders twenty six episodes. We had originally done a little mini-pilot for MTV and they didn’t pick it up. And then we did a full pilot, our first real pilot, for USA Network and they cancelled our pilot while we were shooting it. But somebody had thrown it on iFilm and it went to number one. We were the only Canadian comedy guys in LA who had done a decent pilot, CBC saw it and they ordered twenty six fucking shows. Nobody orders twenty six shows. Especially if you’re just two fucking losers like us. That was brutal, doing twenty six shows in a row: gaining weight, staying awake, living in the woods …

Spenny: That’s the difference. It’s such a grind when compared with film making where there’s a light at the end of the tunnel. This was just brutal. We did six and we were totally exhausted. Twenty more to go! What!?!

Kenny: I didn’t even think we could do it. I thought we could do three. I guess it’s a famous story with everybody – South Park, Seinfeld – everybody gets these orders and they’re like, “How are we going to do this?”

Spenny: Ask Larry David, he was all pissed off. He suddenly had a real job. He’d never really worked.

Kenny: It’s weird. It’s been a slow process. Spenny and I have been working together for twenty years now.

TB: So you find you have a lot more room to do things now on Showcase?

Kenny: Of course. I’m just surprised they haven’t allowed us to kill children yet. Season four we’re going to start with Who Can Kill More Children.

Spenny: We’ve already done shows that the CBC wouldn’t let us do. Like Who Can Stay Homeless The Longest. We both lived on the streets for about a week. Who Can Create the Most Semen.

Kenny: Who Can Drink the Most Beer. Those are all shows the CBC wouldn’t let us do. The opener of season two, our first show for Showcase, was Who Can Drink the Most Beer just because, finally, the leash was off. We just wanted to do something to set the barometer, the level, for what was coming. It’s gotten kind of crazy. I actually think that we may have gone too far this year, or I may have gone too far.

Spenny: I think that’s the operative word. “I”. I try to rein it in as much as possible. I think that’s why it works. Because if I was like him it would turn into Jackass. And what we do is all very honest, it’s accurate to who we really are.

Kenny: Yeah, the way I figure it is that we’ll never have the opportunity again to have a broadcaster that will let us do, you know, basically anything we want. So to not take advantage of that … you know.

Spenny: And the notes we get back …

Kenny: I’m cracking amputee, Vietnam, old lady sex jokes and they love it! What are these guys smoking? It’s crazy.

TB: Have you kept a total score over the seasons?

[both leap in]

Kenny: This is an issue between us.

[random shouting and swearing]

Spenny: Let me talk! You’ve done nothing but talk! There’s basically Kenny’s view of the count …

Kenny: The world view.

Spenny: … the win / loss. Kenny’s world view. In which, of course, he’s the winner and is hugely ahead. And then there’s someone on Wikipedia who has posted their version of who’s won. The quickest way to say it is that when he derails a competition because he thinks he’s going to lose, then I win.

Kenny: Or if I cheat …

Spenny: Let me talk!

Kenny: If I cheat …

Spenny: I’m not talking about cheating! Derailing is different. You derailed the figure skating competition. You prevented a competition from occurring because you knew you were going to lose. I think that’s a loss for you.

Kenny: B …

Spenny: Let me finish! And THEN he does cheats where he actually videotapes himself cheating and I don’t find out until later. Have you seen any of those?

TB: Yeah, I’ve seen a few of those.

Spenny: Octopus? Have you seen that?

Kenny: Beer!

Spenny: That may be the best example. He creates the contest as the first one to puke loses and then he makes himself throw up on me, which is completely unnecessary. So you’d think I would have clearly won that one. But he goes by the ethic that as long as I do the humiliation then he’s won. I don’t go by that. I can’t. If I measured myself that way I couldn’t live with myself, I couldn’t even do the series. And I think that’s reasonable. I think rational people who understand what competitions are would side with me. And the count’s very close if you go by those rules.

Kenny: Like that it’s almost 50-50. But you know what? For me, fuck the competition. It’s about not being humiliated on national television. I think whoever does the humiliation is the fucking loser.

Spenny: And I say that if you watch the show you humiliate yourself on a regular basis. Walking around in your underwear …

Kenny: I don’t think fucking a turkey is humiliating. It’s funny.

Spenny: This is what I’m dealing with.

Kenny: For me there’s just a joy in watching a diabolical plot unfold, when I can convince Spenny that he’s lost when actually he’s won. That is my greatest joy. That is my ultimate pleasure and I say that it’s really Kenny Versus Kenny because I’m just trying to outdo myself and do something so out of the box, so unique, that nobody expects it. And whatever makes Spenny eat a pair of baby diapers at the end is exactly what is my motivation.

Spenny: And for me, I actually couldn’t do the show if I didn’t think I was documenting his assholianess.

Kenny: And I’ll give him that. I use that against him. I see that what he wants is for me to show that and so I let him have it as only I can.

Spenny: You know it is this very weird fetishistic relationship that has evolved. I actually couldn’t do the show and I wouldn’t want to do the show – honestly – if I didn’t feel like I was documenting a sad philosophical reality about machivellian manipulations. He doesn’t step back from it, all he cares about is that humiliation at the end.

Kenny: His whole, “I’m the good guy” thing, it’s all bullshit. Fuck the good guy. It’s not about the good guy or the bad guy, it’s about crushing people that think that they’re better than everyone else. In some of the shows I’ve played fair, I’ve been the good guy. There’s a fine line between who’s the good guy and who’s the bad guy. I think a lot of Spenny’s character traits are very negative, whether that be neurosis, paranoia, having a short fuse, anger, sometimes violence …

Spenny: But lying, cheating …

Kenny: But I’m a good natured guy! I really love life!

Spenny: This season he was so mean to a friend of ours. What you did to Bobby …

Kenny: Naaaah …

Spenny: You have no idea what you did to him …

Kenny: And in the end he was running around telling everybody he was in the show and he loved it.

Spenny: No. He didn’t love it.

Kenny: People are saying … we did a show last year about who do old ladies love more and I hired a Down’s Syndrome kid to pretend he’s my little brother and some people thought that was exploitive but we actually became friends.

Spenny: Kenny! Stop it! Stop it!

Kenny: What?

Spenny: What do you do? How are you friends?

Kenny: I have lunch with him sometimes. I do.

Spenny: When you happen to be a Whole Foods and he’s shopping there.

Kenny: And what’s wrong with that?

Spenny: Have you ever called him to go out to a party or take him to a movie or actually out to lunch?

Kenny: [nodding towards Spenny] One Down’s Syndrome friend is enough. My take on …

Spenny: Kenny’s take on himself is obvious. “I’m a genius. It’s Kenny Versus Kenny. It’s all about me. I’m amazing. I’m wonderful.” My take on him is he can be good, he can be competitive but he’s ultimately insecure and the insecurity leads him down these roads to say that he’s this big genius because he’s afraid that if he didn’t do it … he even says the show wouldn’t be any good if he didn’t do it, which is completely ludicrous!

Kenny: Is it? No!

Spenny: Of course it is! And if you want to think that way fine, but then don’t claim that you’re competing and you’re better than me! Because it doesn’t make sense!
[more random shouting]

Kenny: It’s funny, when we were on CBC they called us Whine and Shyster. [a reference to Canadian comedy duo Wayne and Schuster] And yeah, he’s a whiner …

Spenny: I think anybody would whine. I have agreed from the beginning to do these competitions. If I lock myself in a room or am completely on the defensive, then what do we have?

Kenny: When have I ever locked myself into a room?

Spenny: You did that, too! There’s another example, boxing! He was afraid to fight me!

Kenny: No, I was afraid to kill you.

Spenny: Look at him spin!

Kenny: It’s true! I don’t want to break your fucking teeth.

Spenny: Any time. Any time you’re ready. He’s afraid.

Kenny: He’s an only child. I have an older brother. I can fight, I took karate. Spenny, you look like a fucking coat rack with a Ringo wig. You’ve never had a fight. I grew up fighting.

Spenny: I’ve never had a fight? I’ve been in more fights than you! I guarantee it!

Kenny: Yeah, with your girlfriends.

Spenny: When I drink I fight. That was part of my strategy, I was going to come pissed. But he has his take, I have my take. We’re different people and it’s always going to be that way. I’ll never buy into his bullshit.

Kenny: But we always seem to make love at the end of the night, don’t we Spenny? I’m the top.