HD-DVD is dead - Blu-Ray wins the format war

Reader Comments

1. lblisters 02/20/2008 @ 9:35am

   Problem is, Sony doesn’t deserve to win.  All else aside, Sony has a history of user-hostile technology… CD anticopy protection in the form of a virus that infects users’ computers etc.  I bought a minidisk recorder to archive my music performances… but rather than make the recorder a standard USB Mass Storage so files could be dragged and dropped, Sony forced me to use their (very buggy, windows-only) software - and would only let me digitally copy recordings of MY OWN MUSIC a single time!

   The aspect of particular interest to Twitch readers: Blu-ray includes region coding support whereas with HD-DVD all discs are playable anywhere.

   I’m not at all happy that the next decade’s format is in the hands of a company that treats their customers like crap, and mourn another decade saddled with region-coded discs.

2. Arch Stanton 02/20/2008 @ 9:44am

   This means little to me right now since I have no intention of replacing my collection of perfectly watchable regular DVDs, buying a new player that won’t play my old discs and buying a new TV to make the difference worthwhile. In a few years when the prices for all those things are down, maybe, but certainly not anytime soon.

3. Collin Armstrong 02/20/2008 @ 9:58am

   I don’t see how you can say Sony didn’t deserve to win - they corralled the most support and sold their product more effectively.  Are they an evil corporation?  Sure, but so is HD-DVD co-founder Microsoft. 

   Does “region coding” = “evil”?  Not sure I’m willing to go that far, but I sure do hate it and it sucks we’re still dealing with it.  The region coding aspect sucks - but it is better than what we have with DVD (2 versus 6) and there are already hard-modded A/B players out there which supposedly can’t be changed back to single-region via firmware updates.

4. Ard Vijn 02/20/2008 @ 10:08am

   And there are studios like Warner who refuse to use region coding.
   As for Sony getting it right for once, how about Philips? I’m astonished they ended up betting the right horse for a change…
   
   And a sidenote to that: what’s this “Sony, Sony” murmuring I keep hearing? Blu-ray is a standard, Sony is just one brand. Sure they’ve been pivotal in pushing this but there are other manufacturers making these machines.
   And many more will follow now that it’s the only HD-disc standard.

   If Sony keeps releasing buggy hardware rest assured there is now a veritable army of manufacturers itching to get a player out that does it right.

   This time next year, I might take the plunge…

5. BlackIrishBastard 02/20/2008 @ 10:09am

   I thought region coding was still the norm for DVDs.

   I’m glad this is all over though. The idea that some healthy competition would cause the two companies to lower prices never really seemed to happen. Maybe now that can begin.

6. Ard Vijn 02/20/2008 @ 10:15am

   Region coding for DVDs is still the norm.

   Then again, so is unlocking your DVD player!

7. Jay-Ra 02/20/2008 @ 10:15am

   I dabble in BluRay through my PS3. I only have 2001: A Space Odyssey and Oshii’s Avalon on BR so far but do they ever look pretty. I have no plans of replacing my DVD collection anytime soon but I will definitely be in the market for BRs of very pretty films. My next purchase will likely be Ghost in the Shell 2: Innocence which should be quite nice to look at.

8. Kurt Halfyard 02/20/2008 @ 10:17am

   It all comes down to $$s.  At the moment, there is just not enough reason to upgrade.  How many companies world-wide are putting out films on Blu-Ray discs?  The bulk of what I buy is outside of the US/Canadian marketplace.  Furthermore, I’m not willing to start paying >$30 for catalogue titles.  DVD bins regularly allow me to purchase R1 discs <$5.  That’s a big incentive to a limited budget.

   I wish they would have finally dropped the Region Encoding, although in my experience, a little research when shopping for a player makes it much less of a nuisance (of course, lending out good international cinema is a bit tricky, as most people just buy whatever in terms of a player, most definitely not worrying about something as esoteric as Region Encoding)

   On the other hand, I’ll upgrade when there is a <$75 computer optical drive capable of burning and reading these discs.  18 months sounds about right.

9. Kurt Halfyard 02/20/2008 @ 10:18am

   Jay-Ra - I’ve always said that if one film could get me to go to BLU-RAY, that would be Satoshi-Kon’s PAPRIKA.

10. Collin Armstrong 02/20/2008 @ 10:33am

    I just picked up PAPRIKA in BR - it is gor-ge-ous.  You will be pleased!

    And Ard, Sony has, for whatever reason (probably their focus on the format via the PS3) become the face of the Blu-Ray and the Blu-Ray Disc Association which created the technology (other partners are Matsushita, Pioneer, Philips, Thomson, LG Electronics, Hitachi, Sharp, and Samsung).

11. BlackIrishBastard 02/20/2008 @ 10:40am

    The PS3 is apparently one of the best BR players out there right now.

12. The Visitor 02/20/2008 @ 10:40am

    i don’t get it. aren’t you guys tired of the ever-changing technology and having to replace VHS with LD, LD with VCD/DVD, DVD with Blu-Ray, etc?

    i am. and i’ve not even remotely considered getting into HD.

    sick and tired.

13. Collin Armstrong 02/20/2008 @ 10:50am

    This is a facet of all technology though - there’s a life cycle for every piece of electronic equipment that’s been sold, ever.  It’s not going to stop, either.  I’m definitely tired of it - but technolog will never stop advancing.  The jump here isn’t VHS to DVD (it’s DVD to better DVD, I guess), so I can understand greater resistance to adding yet another format to your shelf.

    I still contest that video on demand services are the end-game here.  But I love video games and wanted a PS3, so it’s allowing me to enjoy Blu-Ray along the way.  I’m certainly not re-buying my DVD collection (which wasn’t a recycled version of my LD or VHS libraries either).

    I think with home entertainment technology we’re pushed a little harder than with computers, appliances to adopt new machines sooner (cost is a big factor - BR players are dipping below $300 - buying a new $300 box for under the TV as opposed to a $2000 laptop is an easier leap in most peoples’ minds).

14. Arch Stanton 02/20/2008 @ 10:50am

    The Visitor I’m sick and fucking tired of it. I had a ton of VHS, then laser,now I’ve got a lot of DVDs.So what now a picture upgrade...then what. What happens in a few years when everyone has switched to BR and the companies reach the same point they’re at now with the DVD market leveling off and the want new profits. PRESTO...a new and “improved” format that guess what...isn’t compatable with existing technology and you have to start the bloody farce all over again...it’s fucking ridiculous.

15. The Visitor 02/20/2008 @ 11:07am

    the ideal situation would be that consumers are single-minded and refuse to support any new formats. no demand, therefore no supply. format dies way. companies are forced to develop improvements on existing software without consumers having to buy new compatible hardware. end of story.

    but that remains an idealistic fantasy, unfortunately.

    sigh.

16. Swarez 02/20/2008 @ 11:51am

    Arch. Where the hell did you hear that HD players don’t play regular DVDs? That’s complete bullcock. They play them just fine, even better than regular DVD players as they upscale them and you don’t need a new TV. It’s just like a regular player but plays HD content. All TVs made these days are HD and when your old one finally leaves this earth you won’t be able to buy anything else.

    Also Pioneer is already out with a region free Blu Ray player so no worries there.

    And why do people always complain that they have to renew their collection again in another format. Who says that you HAVE TO buy everything again? It’s completely up to you if you want to do that but it’s also rather silly to do so. The titles I will be buying again will be very few I can tell you that.

    And the prices will come down. Why do people think that they won’t? How much did a DVD player cost when it first came out? Well over 1000 dollars I can tell you that. It is still early in the game and I guess people are just impatient and want it cheap. That’s one of the reason electronic manufacturers were leaving the HD DVD camp, the players were so cheap that they were losing money. New technology is always expensive first, so the companies can get their money back. HD DVD blew their load far too soon in hopes that the general public would buy it in hordes, but in the end they didn’t even sell 1 million players world wide in all this time. 

17. Kurt Halfyard 02/20/2008 @ 11:58am

    Agreed that lack of back compatibility is LUDICROUS!  within 6 months, I’m sure there’ll be a player on the market that incorporates an old-fashioned red laser into the hardware, or finds some other work-around to playing old discs.

18. Swarez 02/20/2008 @ 12:05pm

    This right there is what Sony has to make clear to the general public. BLU RAY PLAYERS PLAY REGULAR DVDS! ALWAYS HAVE AND ALWAYS WILL!

19. Kurt Halfyard 02/20/2008 @ 12:07pm

    OK, change above post from 6 months to 6 minutes! 

20. Kurt Halfyard 02/20/2008 @ 12:07pm

    (or 6 months ago...)

21. Collin Armstrong 02/20/2008 @ 12:09pm

    Wow.  I’m really shocked at the amount of confusion on this - especially from Twitch-reading folks, who if they aren’t techies at least seem knowledgeable re: DVD, home theater, etc.

    Wonder if this is as widespread a misconception through the general media-buying population?

22. Swarez 02/20/2008 @ 12:20pm

    That is what I was thinking. Sony needs to address this issue if it wants to nail the J6P’s of the world who don’t think about this stuff.

23. Arch Stanton 02/20/2008 @ 12:23pm

    Swarez if the HD players play older DVDs that’s fine. I was going by what I read a year ago saying that the new players, red and blues lasers would NOT be able to play regular DVDs. I’m not a tech expert, I was going by what the tech experts were saying a year ago at the digitalbits.If that’s changed then great and they were wrong.

    But as someone who has been through a format change three times already I’ll give this one more time to play out. Who knows if this will be the video version of DAT. Due to rapidly changing technology format changes may also go faster. Who knows how long this one will be the new standard or if in a few years video discs will go like music CDs are now with more people downloading. I’m just not jumping on this bandwagon anytime soon. Been there, done that.

24. Kurt Halfyard 02/20/2008 @ 1:53pm

    I think a lot of what Arch said contributes to the lack of knowledge, even amongst home theatre folks (myself - yet since i have a 720p Projector, to maximize the new high-res 1080p I’d have to spend some serious $$ upgrading my projector, which I’m unwilling to do.)

    Format fatigue leads to indifference which has the side-effect of ignorance.  The who format-war lead to even more indifference.  Now that it’s more or less over, well...I’ll be waiting a year or two, as stated above…

25. Arch Stanton 02/20/2008 @ 2:27pm

    Kurt you’re absolutely right, if I gave a shit ( like I did when Laser and DVD came out) about this format I’d be well versed in all it’s current info. Since I don’t, like I said in my first post this news of the winning format means little to me right now.
    Like I also said and you have said as well I’m waiting at least a year or more to see where this goes.

    VHS to Laser was a big step, Laser to DVD was another big step, this one doesn’t seem as big and certainly not something I give enough of a crap about to start buying a new player and new DVDs.

26. Stormrider 02/20/2008 @ 2:41pm

    My question is will HD DVD completely seize to exist. I didn’t buy a new Blu-Ray or Combo player yet. A movie like “Dead Silence” put out by Universal Studios on a Combo HD DVD/DVD Combo format for example, will it be available also on Blu-Ray soon? Did Universal Studios so far only put movies in Hi Def out on HD DVD and will they soon or are already releasing their movies on Blu-Ray?

27. Collin Armstrong 02/20/2008 @ 2:50pm

    Universal has announced they’ll begin releasing BR discs soon - however they’ll have some work to do, getting their manufacturing process in place because they’ve been exclusive to HD-DVD.  I would suspect you’d see a lot of the titles already available on HD-DVD be ported to BR pretty quickly.  The “combo” disc technology doesn’t exist for BR, though - so when they release something like DEAD SILENCE it’ll be a high-def only release - not a high-def / standard-def combo.

28. Collin Armstrong 02/20/2008 @ 2:53pm

    HD-DVD players will be sold until their stock runs out; same with software.  You should see some decent deals in the future (they’re already clearancing players at some big brick-and-mortar stores in the US like Circuit City).

    Without backing from Toshiba, I don’t see anyone producing new HD-DVD players or software, but… you never know.  People are still making new Sega Dreamcast games, and as of a year or two ago you could buy a new Saturn console from Brazil I think.  People may continue to support the HD-DVD technology, but it won’t be in the race for consumer dominance anymore.

29. MavisFan 02/20/2008 @ 3:42pm

    Does this mean Celestial will release the remaining Shaw Brothers films in BlueRay and will Cathay have more releases??? hmmmm...probably not, so I don’t see any reason to upgrade or buy blueray since most if not all korean and HK movies are released under the normal DVD format..BTW is HOFD and Hero edited on BlueRay?  If so it’s just another reason it’s a waste??  Congrats Sony..

30. Ard Vijn 02/20/2008 @ 5:04pm

    It’s astounding how many people do not know that HD-players will also accept DVD’s, even people related to movie-business!
    
    I remember Harry Knowles loudly proclaiming to have bought a HD-DVD player because it could also play his DVD’s (blissfully unaware that Blu-ray could do the same).
    
    So Stormrider, a Blu-ray player will play the DVD-part of a DVD/HD-DVD combo, but not the HD-DVD part. I never understood why they made those combos to be honest.
    
    
    Oh, and a tip for all you people who already have an HD-television but aren’t considering switching to Blu-ray soon.

    In the next few weeks you’ll notice HD-DVD players will become ultra, ultra cheap. Like, maybe even free. Try to get one!
    Here’s why:

    You can use it to play your regular DVDs, but the HD-DVD player will upscale the image to 1080 !!
    And you WILL marvel at how good your old DVDs suddenly look on your new TV!!!

31. The Visitor 02/20/2008 @ 7:44pm

    Swarez,

    whether Blu Ray players are able to play regular DVDs or not, isn’t the main problem. what i’m addressing is that you have to get yourself a new hardware. yes, you can wait until the prices drop, but how long a wait? in a little while, everything’s going to be released in Blu Ray, and you’ll find yourself stuck in a time warp if you don’t get a BR player real quick, like, er, now.

    (btw, how much is Sony paying you to convince people? you seem rather agitated.)

32. The Visitor 02/20/2008 @ 7:49pm

    also, some R1 and R3 DVDs over here have become very affordable. just when the prices are right, now i might have to fork out more money for the more expensive BR discs, if BR completely phases out regular DVDs. probably in a few more years, the same thing will happen to BR once another hot new format comes along. it’s a vicious cycle.

33. Tuan Jim 02/21/2008 @ 3:08am

    May go to BR eventually, but in the short term I’ll go ahead and pick up a HD player (for convenience sake ie. size, probably the xbox 360 addon) - since I’m getting the Appleseed 2 version by default in the LE and because I really want to watch Lynch’s “Dune” (Road Warrior and others are also on the list).

34. Rhythm-X 02/21/2008 @ 4:07am

    I believe the way it works is that HD-DVD players were required to be backwards compatible to be compliant with the HD-DVD standard.  Blu-ray doesn’t have the same requirement, though there’s nothing preventing manufacturers from making their players DVD compatible, as all of them have done thus far.  But when the hardware company is also the software company, there’s a very real incentive to turn off compatibility at some point down the road to “stimulate” software sales.

35. Swarez 02/21/2008 @ 4:12am

    Visitor.

    It just bugs me that people who ought to know better are complaining about the same thing that didn’t seem to bother them when DVD came on the scene, price, new hardware and such.
    And the best plan is to wait for the prices to come down and they will. I’m sure that within a year you will see bargain bin BR titles.

    You don’t need to upgrade your hardware right away. The vast majority of people don’t give two shits about HD and are perfectly fine with SD DVDs. That is why the BD people need to marked this product towards them if they want this thing to take off. Right now it’s a fraction of DVD sales so there is a long way to go. They need to marked it as a product that will play regular DVDs and that you don’t need to upgrade all your shit if you don’t want to but it has the advantage of being able to play the next generation format.

    I don’t have a HD TV yet simply because they are too expensive where I live. I’m waiting for them to come down. If I hadn’t gotten that PS3 for free because of my job reviewing computer games I wouldn’t have gotten in to this “war” in the first place because I was planing to wait it out. The reason being new technology is always expensive at first and then comes down in price when it’s entered the mainstream.

    And I’ve been working with Sony for quite some time now and get a fat paycheck every time I convince someone to buy their stuff.

36. sarkoffagus 02/21/2008 @ 6:38am

    Swarez, I agree with you that most people are currently satisfied with SD DVDs. When DVDs came out against VHS, there were many reasons to go digital. Better quality, easier access to special features, new things like audio commentaries, being able to rent online with affordable shipping (as opposed to renting VHS, which was expensive and would typically damage the tapes). With BR, it’s really only about better quality. That’s it. (And I maintain that the majority of consumers preferred BluRay because it was easier to say than HD DVD.)

    VHS to DVD was like masturbation to sex. Masturabation is fun, but hey, sex is even better. But DVD to BR is like sex with a slightly better looking chick, and why would you pay a lot more for that? Plus, you’ve grown to love your DVDs, so it’s no longer about how they look. You love spending time with them, taking them out on dates, and walking on the beach… I’ve completely lost track of my analogy, but hopefully you see my point.

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