Charlize Lusts For VENGEANCE

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1. gutsncasca 03/11/2008 @ 8:06pm

   What the fuck?! Another damned Hollywood remake of another classic. It hasn’t been 3 years yet and now they’re already remaking “Lady Vengeance” with Charlize Theron?

   Hollywood is crazy. First it was “The Ring” a remake of “Ringu” starring that blond-haired woman who was freaking around with King Kong, then it was “The Grudge” another Japanese horror remake of “Juon” and that had Buffy playing in that.

   Now they’re going after Korean cinema! That’s it, I’m threw with Hollywood and going to the movies in general.

2. ChevalierAguila 03/11/2008 @ 8:20pm

   Jebus fucking crist, hollywood is doing it again. Go and make new stuff instead of rehashing movies from other place/times and so on, you lazy fucks.

3. methosb 03/11/2008 @ 8:21pm

   Could be alright I guess, depends who is directing. Theron does have the chops needed.

   We can’t really do anything about remakes, we all know people should just watch the original, but remakes aren’t gonna stop. Best we can do is hope that the remakes get a good crew behind them so they don’t give the original a bad name, or bring something new to the table.

4. methosb 03/11/2008 @ 8:32pm

   That said, the best that can be hoped for with a remake is better production values or a re-invisioning. But Korean films have just as much production value as Hollywood films, so exact remakes a completely pointless.

5. Todd Brown 03/11/2008 @ 8:52pm

   Not trying to pick on you Chevalier but this is a handy example of something I’ve always found baffling.

   On the Killer Tomatoes thread, you say the remake is “a chance for making some special” but on the Lady Vengeance thread it’s “Jebus fucking crist, hollywood is doing it again. Go and make new stuff instead of rehashing movies from other place/times and so on, you lazy fucks”

   Seriously, what the hell?  Is it only remaking Asian films that you find offensive, and if so, why?

   Basic reality of the film industry in North America:  if it’s subtitled the vast majority of people will not only not watch it, they’ll never even hear of it.  If nothing else the remakes - even the bad ones - draw more attention to the originals, giving the original film makers deserved attention.  I don’t get the hatred, and I especially don’t get how people can talk out of both sides of their mouth on this with the lines seemingly drawn purely on race lines ...

6. Pusheye 03/11/2008 @ 11:21pm

   I think a lot of the hatred stems from something that is a cherished form of art for some people (Chevalier) to be repackaged for an audience that refuses to give it any time to begin with (Pat Buchanan, teenage girls).  We don’t repaint Picasso because we don’t understand it.  However, I do think it’s a different case altogether if the director who is remaking the film is using the original as a catalyst to create a unique and personal work on his own, maybe like A FIstful of Dollars or something.  It doesn’t rile me too much, as pretty much most of these remade Asian films in America for the past decade have been lame as hell (except for the Departed) and I just ignore them.  It’s fortunate that they don’t really tout the original director’s name too much on these remakes, because you can pretty much feel Banjong Pisanthanakun’s pain deep in his gut without having to ever even know the guy.  The majority of the U.S. remakes are indeed from Asia, and their numbers are growing, so it’s hard not to be angry about Amercian moviemakers being lazy and ripping off films and in the same breath not have it to do anything with Asia (then in a distant second would be the UK, Europe, Africa… wherever else a slightly alien culture could be tightened and tuned to an audience that’ll watch it and forget about it a few days later).  In contrast, Park’s Lady Vengeance is impossible to forget and is, without a doubt, a work of art.  Now, in my opinion, the same cannot be said for a lot of the Asian films that were remade in the past, but that’s due to my consideration of Park being an amazing director regardless of his ethnicity and realizing that not every film from Asia is gold.  I think his work is too important to be retranslated because a few million people have issues reading their own language in subtitles. I think that with Tarkovsky too, but there just had to be two Solaris’, didn’t there?  It’s a troubling and dividing issue for sure, but people like Scorsese and Leone show that good can come from it.
   But, in the end, I think “don’t like it, don’t watch it” pretty much sums it all up.

7. Todd Brown 03/11/2008 @ 11:47pm

   Very well said Pusheye. There are minor points in there where I’d disagree, but that’s just quibbling.

   What I don’t get, though, and what happened in this case is when you see the same person praising an American remake of an American film as a positive thing while simultaneously heaping damnation on an Asian film. It’s just weird and it happens all the time.  I got into this once when a guy said - literally - that Roy Lee should be shot for remaking Asian films because this was somehow disrespectful to the original films and film makers.  Asked the guy why those same film makers keep working with Lee if they feel so horribly disrepected and got no response at all.  Asked the guy if he considered Takashi Miike remaking The Quiet Family as Happiness of the Katakuris disrespectful and he said that was fine because it was Asians remaking Asians and they were all basically the same.  Seriously.

   Where’s the outrage when Asian film makers remake an American film? Happens all the time.  Benny Chan’s remaking Cell Phone right now.  Did people freak out when Ole Bornedal remade his own Night Watch in English for English audiences?  Or Haneke with Funny Games?  And while it’s a very different film than the original I’m actually quite fond of the Soderbergh Solaris and heard not a single soul saying he was disrespecting Russia while he was making it.

   There just seems to be this bizarre, irrational hatred when it comes to Hollywood remakes of Asian films that doesn’t apply anywhere else.  Are there a lot of bad remakes?  Sure there are.  But ask yourself if the proportion of bad remakes is worse than the proportion of bad films in general.  I don’t think so at all ... film’s film.  Some are good, most are bad, and if a remake helps steer some people to a superior original than more power to ‘em.

8. BtoFu 03/11/2008 @ 11:53pm

   If she bites into a Big Mac at the end, I’ll shoot the projectionist.

   Nah I don’t care much at all for Lady Vengeance and honestly think that if they want to rejig big asian films, there are easier/better examples out there with a greater chance of filtering through unscathed. Like whatever happened to that Chaos remake that was tied to DeNiro?

9. Ard Vijn 03/12/2008 @ 1:53am

   Hatred for Americans remaking Asian films is now more or less ingrained, no matter how irrational.

   I agree with Todd and Pusheye that it’s no biggie to me, but it wasn’t long ago that a remake meant you might never see the original because the studio that was about to release or develope a remake just… sat on it.

10. Momo the Cow 03/12/2008 @ 1:57am

    “We don’t repaint a Picasso because we don’t understand it.”
    Well said, but the tragedy here isn’t so much that Hollywood ‘repaints’ foreign pieces because Americans won’t be able to ‘get’ them (a condescending theory that has since become self-actualising, possibly to the point of no return), but that so many Americans aren’t interested in paintings that aren’t about Americans.

    People from almost every nation I’ve visited, every nation but English speaking ones and most acutely America, switch quite effortlessly between numerous entertainments from multiple countries and languages. This seems so inexcusable in our little world, given that overcoming the minor, and increasingly minor with experience, learning curve required to empathise with someone of another culture is casual second nature to so many.

    I share some of Chevalier’s feelings given that Lady Vengeance’s only crime is to be Korean and in need of subtitling (another argument altogether). A remake seems scarcely likely be more modern, well acted or technically accomplished than the original is.
    That being said, I’m looking forward to Haneke’s Funny Games tearing English language audiences a new one, and I might actually prefer Soderbergh’s Solaris.

11. Ichi-The-Killer 03/12/2008 @ 4:01am

    And if this one makes money than comes Oldboy than Mr. Vengence and then it never stops.

12. Swarez 03/12/2008 @ 4:20am

    My guess is that it’s like when a cult band becomes popular their oldest and most hard core fans stop listening to them because they’ve “sold out” or have become more mainstream.
    It seems to irritate people that teenagers and mall hoppers listen to the same stuff they do and therefore don’t want anything to do with it because they don’t want to have the same interest as those types of people. They want to have this little “secret” for themselves without it being watered down for the masses.
    Us foreign film fans know of many brilliant films that the average teenager or Joe Six Pack will never see and we like that. We like our little niche place and in some way we look down on those who fill the multiplexes when Meet the Spartans premiers. To think that these same idiots will be able to enjoy something that we discovered first and that is rightly ours is unthinkable to some. Let them have their The Hottie and the noties and their Epic Movies but leave our little gems alone.

    I’m one of those who think remaking foreign films is stupid but I know why it’s done. I grew up in a country where foreign films are abundant, we don’t dub films for the marked and we learn english pretty much by watching subtitled movies. It bugs me to think about remakes because 98% of the time they end up being pretty bad but I also have the privilege to be able to watch the original any time I want so I don’t let it bother me too much.
    I also have to confess that I was once asked to write an outline for a remake for Miike’s Audition. Fortunately that project is dead in the water for now. 

    But I for one don’t see the financial point of remaking a movie like Lady Vengeance. It’s never going to be mainstream, the story is to unconventional, and it’s never going to appeal to the major movie going crowd. It’s always going to be in the art house territory so I simply don’t see the reason.

13. sarkoffagus 03/12/2008 @ 6:03am

    There have been many great points made on this topic. I fully comprehend Chevalier’s frustration over remakes. I don’t think the studios are remaking the films because they’re trying to create their own version of a great film. They simply want to emulate the success. They could easily lift a foreign film’s plot and refashion it. But they want to sell it as a remake so everyone will think it’s the same thing, just Americanized for us in the U.S.

    But I think, for fans of the Asian films that are remade, it almost seems insulting, more so than remakes of domestic movies. I know it’s really the foreign language that does it—that makes studios film an American language version—but it almost insinuates that the Asian cast/crew wasn’t good enough, that an American director can do better. I understand that’s simply not the case, but the idea still lingers in the mind.

    And I don’t think it’s just the remake of Asian films that piss people off. Why the hell did George Sluizer remake his own movie, THE VANISHING? His original was excellent, and the U.S. version is not nearly as good. VANILLA SKY, anyone? Some people weren’t fond of Alejandro Amenábar’s original, OPEN YOUR EYES, but I loved it and thought the remake was a waste of time. Does it all boil down to the animosity for subtitles? Perhaps.

    And for me, personally, remakes of Asian films are just a reminder of how Asian films are generally treated, especially HK flicks. What’s worse: Making an American version, or chopping 20 minutes of the film, rescoring it, dubbing it into English, and slapping on a new title? Can we Americans only appreciate the Chinese if they’re kicking each other’s asses? Should we cut out the plot to an HK movie and avoid listening to them speak in their native tongue?

    Some remakes work, and I agree with Todd that remakes may even open some people’s eyes and cause them to seek out the original (Miike’s remake of THE QUIET FAMILY piqued my interest in Kim Ji-woon, who has since become one of my favorite directors—and where the hell is his new one, BTW?!). But, sadly, I think the overwhelming majority of people will not only disregard the source film, but most of them won’t even realize that what they’re watching is a damn remake.

    So if the U.S. wants to remake foreign films, fine. Some of them will be okay, a few may even surpass the original, and some of them will suck a great deal of ass. If you love a foreign film, you want others to see it, and watching it being remade is irritating. But look at all these Twitch readers. These people know what’s happening. Mainstream audiences may insult your favorite Asian flick, but while you’re screaming, “Goddamn fascist studios!”, just remember that, somewhere, there’s someone else thinking the same thing.

14. misteresh 03/12/2008 @ 6:26am

    Fanboy comment: She should die.

    Seriously, if you love something, you don’t ruin it for everyone else.

15. Kurt Halfyard 03/12/2008 @ 7:47am

    Lady in my favorite of the trilogy.  I’d rather it not be remade, but there is a point that NOBODY was interested in this film when it played here theatrically.  It made less than $250,000 at the box office (Probably because most interested parties already owned the gorgeous Limited Edition Korean Set or had seen it in a festival environment. 

    Visually, this should have got people into the cinema, and the cult-success of Oldboy should have added more incentive.  But no.

    Do we really think that this will be made though?  Some of the more complicated entries in recent Asian Cinema had remakes on board but collapsed (Old Boy, Battle Royale, Audition), while the more genre-friendly ones get made (Ring, Shutter, Pulse, Ju-On, Infernal Affairs).  I think Lady Vengeance is complicated enough to not make it thru the script-writing/production process, even if it is somewhat of a vanity project for a major award-lauded Hollywood star. 

    I don’t expect a remake of VITAL or 3-IRON in the future either.

16. kinkybob 03/12/2008 @ 8:31am

    I hate remakes of any industry. Be it American or Asian. I haven’t seen Lady Vengeance yet, but I am still skeptical on the quality of the movie. I’m pretty sure the Lady Vengeance was a fantabulous movie and for someone to remake it is sad.

    Hollywood needs to think of better ideas. Stop taking others ideas and try to remake it into garbage like they’ve been doing with all their remakes.

17. plastique 03/12/2008 @ 12:09pm

    Sarkoffagus mentioned that most people who watch remakes disregard the film source or don’t even know its a remake. I completely agree. Most of my friends who’ve seen The Departed or any horror remake don’t even consider watching the originals, and even go as far to insinuate that the American version has got to be better simply because the original in Asian.
    For me, the purpose of remakes is to repackage a film for the regular American public who view most foreign cinema as either too highbrow or of lesser quality than American films. Only a curious small percentage of the people who see those will be turned onto the source material. People get upset with remakes of Asian films because it comes down to some producers saying, “Yeah, its a great film, except for all those Asians in it. More people here will see it if it has Americans.” I think people are less inclined to get riled up about European remakes because their are so much less of them then Asian remakes, and remakes of old films because modern interpretations of old stories has been going on for ages.
    Whatever your view is, the fact is that most American remakes are for the American Idol crowd who hardly watch any foreign or independant cinema. The disregard for the original’s culture and people seems to suggest a lack of respect on the part of the Hollywood producer’s, whether that is valid or not. Personally, as I watched the Departed, I kept thinking how the original creators felt when every Asian in the film was portrayed as a sniveling bad guy, and when they credited it as a Japanese film at the Oscars. I don’t know if anyone felt the same way, but that is what comes into my mind when that film is brought up.

18. Zwanster03 03/12/2008 @ 1:20pm

    I don’t understand why so many hollywood actors say they are big fans of movies and that they would like to remake them, like Will Smith recently saying he would like to remake Rio Grande because hes such a big fan, surely if they love these films that much they’d want to leave them alone and not destroy the memories of them…

19. The Visualist 03/12/2008 @ 3:07pm

    I’ll leave the argument of the validity of remakes, be them Asian or otherwise. The fact of the matter is some of them work and most don’t. With Lady Vengeance, I can see the basic premise being used in a remake, but little else. I will say the climax of Lady Vengeance will never get past a first draft here in the states—if that. If the movie is ever made (which is unlikely) it will be your basic female revenge film with dramatic elements.

    Of course, I guarantee you the same people who are up at arms about this project will be conflicted if a talented director is attached. Tell me if Darren Aronofsky got his hands on this that it wouldn’t be instantly on your most-anticipated list? That’s what I thought.

20. ChevalierAguila 03/12/2008 @ 5:54pm

    Woah, steamy debate, me likes that. I’ll post here what i posted in the “Tomatoes note, adding some stuff too:

    “Seriously, what the hell?  Is it only remaking Asian films that you find offensive, and if so, why?”

    Nope, i find, if not offensive, at least quite annoying that they remake films that don’t need a remake at all, be from asia or american films from other times that are perfectly fine the way they were made, or that they remake stuff that is not good, and the remake turns out even worst, which is the equivalent of making a snowball of crap that gets bigger and bigger. And nope, i’m not against just lazy Hollywood remakes, be the USA or some other country doing the (lazy) remake doesn’t matter (Bollywood is still the top dog in this area) “Tomatoes..” is a movie that suits fine for a spoof/satire among other things (it can also turn into a turd mind you, but there is some potencial in the idea) Lady Vengeance is quite a serious affair that developes it’s story in many way thanks to the director, to the cast, the soundtrack among other things that makes it a unique experience. Even if you didn’t liked the film, it has an identity of it’s own.

    And the “remakes make people try the original” is hardly a safe thing, it can actually make people not want to watch the original at all. Or many just don’t care about foreign cinema, which is fine, but why over-flowing your countrie’s film industry with rehashed stuff instead of trying to do something new? Remakes are not a bad thing per se, but most of the time they’re just poor excuses to cash on the hype of a film or an specific genre/wave etc. The good remakes, the ones that actually become an experience of it’s own, stuff like John Carpenter’s The Thing, Miike’s Katakuris and De Palma’s Scarface, those are sadly not the rule, but the very few exceptions.

    Hoping that i made my posture clear in this issue.

21. Swarez 03/12/2008 @ 6:28pm

    I’m sure nobody hunted down the original version of Tom Hank’s “Big” when that came out. I’m pretty sure 99% of the people out there don’t know it’s a remake.

22. ChevalierAguila 03/12/2008 @ 6:52pm

    Same for Nicolas Cage’s “Gone in 60 Seconds”.

23. DJensen 03/12/2008 @ 9:21pm

    I’m on the fence about this.

    On one hand I hate that it’s done entirely for business/imaginary property rights reasons and not for the love of story telling, good acting, or anything along those lines — it’s a lazy cash-grab, basically. I hate that it means the stubborn people who refuse to read subtitles get a glimpse of something good, but will never know it’s a remake (of something they’d dismiss in its natural form), when really they should be punished in some gratifying (for me) way.

    On the other hand, 4,000 years ago we were ‘remaking’ classic stories every night by the camp fire too. It seems the good stories only stick if they’re told again and again and again.

24. The Visualist 03/13/2008 @ 9:13pm

    So it looks like this remake is the brainchild of Chan-wook Park himself.

    via MTV

    “He made an almost perfect film,” Theron says, “[but] he came to me and said he really wanted us to do this. He wanted to see that story told in an American society. If he wasn’t so encouraging I don’t think I could go through with it. We’re intimidated almost beyond belief.” She also says that the project is in “very, very early stages of development,” so it might not ever happen.

    ...so I guess that ends that. Just looking back at some of these comments, might I suggest a wine to go with that crow?

25. Swarez 03/14/2008 @ 1:29am

    Touché.

26. Kurt Halfyard 03/14/2008 @ 7:02am

    I still don’t believe this will ever be made.  And then boy, oh, boy, I tremble for the amount of Kill Bill comparisons that many of the dunderheaded mainstream media are going to make if this does get any sort of release.

27. Momo the Cow 03/14/2008 @ 9:15am

    Goodness, that alters the plot, doesn’t it? Tuck my tail and colour me whiney.

    Still, as with Haneke’s enthusiastic shot-for-shot remake of his ‘Funny Games’, I can’t imagine Park being so eager to see an American remake of his film if his first film found warmer Stateside welcome in the first place.

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