You may well see another review of 'Election 2' appear very soon here on the front page, truth be told I have decided to move my thoughts on the film from within the forum (written a couple of days ago) and stick them here once again, this time sticking all the relevant missing punctuation and so on into it.
Normally don't like the idea of sitting to watch a film with the idea I am going to write about it, but I am getting used to it more and more, and I don't over-think it too much since I've switched to largely sticking them in the relevant forum thread. It's much nicer, less formal, can bash out my ideas more quickly.
So, here goes, some thoughts on 'Election 2', which Todd also has his hands on a copy of and must have been unable to get around to reviewing just yet (busy guy) but which will certainly appear very soon - maybe tonight, was expecting it the same day as I wrote these ones below.
A much clearer story this time around and much more clearly told too, the 2-year period of rule is coming to an end and the jostling for position begins. The process has its rules and traditions, but the system is entrenched in other less official rules and traditions also - the bribery, political discussions, coersion and violence all gradually move into place like a hugely complicated, unruly game of chess.
Initially its a little too discussion-based, and although this clearly isn't intended to be an action movie it doesnt mean it wouldn't have benefited from some defining action event or sequences to identify and shape the characters beyond being people involved in talks, sitting around desks, sat in bars, walking streets and so on. If the lack of clarity is intentional, and i suspect not, then it's another element to make it a complicated situation - i fear its actually about my inability to grasp names and faces easily.
As time goes on it still manages to remain thoroughly captivating, the ultra-dark style of the visuals is one of the key elements to help set what is probably one of the most gentle, menacing, unnerving atmospheres ive seen in recent years. The music, the editing of the sound, the nightime setting make for something even darker than the previous film, and the tension and apprehension is nerve-wracking as the difficulties and conclusion nears. Centrally, the story is about the changover from British rule (essentially a very independant rule, almost a country in its own right) to Chinese rule effecting how life for Wo Shing can be run (how HK has now effectively become just another Chinese city), what they can and cant effectively do, what direction they potentially go in and the kind of business they do - right down to how legitimately they choose to live, and the fight to work their way forwards in relatively uncertain / unpredictable times.
Johnnie to explains that the intention is to make a document about the changing times in triad society, and helps to clarify why people shouldnt be concerned about the relative lack of action - it's about political power and the gentle peeks of action / events are simply part of that picture rather than just for the sake of it - and that these films should be viewed as something new and different, not related to earlier HK cinema. It make easily be compared to Japanese Yakuza movies that document things from a more truthful angle, but the primary aim of Johnnie To's films seems to be to document the actuality of HK gangsters in a comparable fashion and the importance is on the films being made in this fashion now, and that they represent and record these times, not that they bare any resemblance in approach to older films.
There is a middleground feeling to the films, neither documents of actual events or completely without a sense of reality (they're not entertainment movies per se) - if anything they feel intent on being as realistic with actions and events as possible - they stick themselves in an odd position of still being movies in many aspects, more like documentaries in others, so the atmosphere is similar to that ground covered by films like 'The Godfather' which is as close a comparison as you could make, i suspect.
Great films, some astonishing violence, primarily impressive because of its tangiable sense of tension and fear, likely to leave many shaking or shocked at the end.
*The HK DVD is just lovely, the broken-English Subtitles on the extras are a slight let-down, otherwise (on the surface of things) this is as good a DVD presentation as you could hope for.
More from Election 2:
- Reviews: TIFF Report: Election 2 Review
I've enjoyed several of To's films myself, although I wouldn't categorize myself as a 'fanboy'. To has definitely turned a new page with "Election", though I have to admit I derived little pleasure from viewing the proceedings. There is no questioning his seriousness of intent, but as drama, I found the story rather ponderous. When I wrote about the film, I complained about the murky image which made following the action quite difficult at times. Is the picture clearer this time around?
The negativity of the UK reviewers carries a whiff of not just laziness and an unwillingness to engage with the film's layer of political commentary, but also of racism. A great many UK reviewers have a tendency to not be able to tell Asian faces apart or names, and this is often been between the lines of their reviews of films from Hong Kong. Their highbrow snobbery towards genre films - especially a hostility towards gangster films - also has something to do with it.
To me Election 2 is essentially a political movie and as such it represents something entirely new in HK cinema and, I suspect, highly controversial in the eyes of the Chinese rulers whose representatives are portrayed less than symphatetic. Only Fruit Chan has hinted at these questions before, but To does it with more style and earnestness. By the way, I initially got hold of a "chinese" version of the DVD made in Singapore and discovered that the entire opening sequece is missing. Why is that, anyone?
Saw it last night & I also thought it was excellent, although a notch down from part 1. The introduction of the Chinese authorities as a major player was fascinating and I loved the fleshing out of Inspector Shi's role. I didn't fully understand the political allegory of Jimmy being persuaded to turn Won Sing into a dynastic outfit. I'm sure the PRC pulls plenty of the political strings in Hong Kong, but as a family affair? Perhaps someone more knowledgeable about HK politics can enlighten me?
The plotting seemed a bit more laboured than part 1. For example, surely the mirroring of part 1's classic "fishing scene" was a bit unnecessary, and how come Uncle Teng, who can hardly walk, lives at the top of HK's biggest flight of stairs?!
Did anyone else notice that the trailers show a scene where Kun is about to be executed by the Red Guards, which isn't in the actual movie (though alluded to by Inspector Shi)? It's a shame Panorama didn't include some of the cut footage on Disc 2.
no,
you and Grady re rite, considering original ELECTION has good words of mouth and the Awards winning hype, the sequel should make at least 20m, box office is a slight disappointment. Btw, Louis Koo is never an actor, the first one has Tony Leung Kar Fai.
Excellent film and a step up from the first movie in my opinion, although Louis Koo is not really capable of carrying a movie in the way Simon Yam can. I loved the fishing scene in this movie, although it would only work if you have seen the first. I’m not sure I would read racism or even laziness into the less than great UK reviews. The UK is generally receptive to Hong Kong films. I think Election was just not a great choice as a crossover film for the mainstream. I can see why mainstream critics would not like it and when you think of the audience they are reviewing for in some ways they are being true to that audience by not recommending it.
I actually like ELECTION 2 a bit more than ELECTION, but I think together they're a major work, on the level of THE GODFATHER 1 and 2. I actually liked the fishing scene reprise in ELECTION 2 - I saw the movie with an audience and it got a big laugh. Laughs are good.
As for the opening footage being missing on your Singapore DVD, is it the opening stuff with the triad ceremony? They may have cut it because depicting triad rituals and using triad language is a no-no in Hong Kong (and will instantly earn you a Category III - and even then the language may still be bleeped out) and it may be not allowed in Singapore.
As for the execution footage, we'll probably never see this. Johnnie To has said he doesn't want to include it in a future disc or do another cut of the movie. But he does want to keep the footage since, according to him, he may use it for another movie.
I am little surprised that Singapore DVD has a cut version....
ELECTION 2 went straight-to-DVD in mainland China; however, the version in mainland China DVD is a UNCUT version. (All dialogues have been dubbed to Mandarin, though)
The audience reaction in HKIFF screening of ELECTION 2 were pretty good, so I'm little surprised that it got generally negative response form general audience during its Hong Kong theatrical release. (Some people even said that it is the wrost Hong Kong film ever)
My reaction? At first, I just thought that ELECTION 2 was a good film, not great. However, when I re-watched ELETION 2, each viewing is stronger than the one before.
Just watched "Election 2" for the second time in two days—it's quite the masterful feat, and Johnnie To moved onto a whole new artistic plateau with the "Election" films. (Both of which have whetted my appitite that much more for "The Sparrow" and "The Exiled.") I'm not much for facile comparisons, but those made between these films and "Godfather" and "Godfather Pt. 2" are spot-on. The complexity of frayed loyalties, the underlying socio-political themes, the methodical deconstruction of gangster film cliches, and clever mixture of narrative and action—it's all there.
Now, a question—is an "Election 2" OST available? If so, where? And if not, why not?
I dunno as I saw anything particularly racist in the critics' responses over here. I was more puzzled by their yawning dismissals than anything else - I dunno, maybe I'm unconsciously glossing over stuff other people are puzzling over but I really didn't find either film particularly difficult to follow. I don't think they're perfect - there are niggling little things you could see being done better - but I thought they were both excellent films, regardless of one's background in oriental studies or anything. I've never read up on the Triads or the early history of Hong Kong; the closest I've ever got is several James Clavell novels. ;) Even trying to be objective it was just really difficult to see anything that would make people outright go "what's that? what'd he say? what's going on? damn it, I don't understand!" Like the thing about getting Jimmy to turn the syndicate into a family affair - seemed fairly obvious to me this was just the most obvious way of saying "so we'll control you in HK, and your children, and your children's children and you'll never be free of us".
I admit it's pretty dark, though, more so than the first film. Carrying a visual metaphor a touch too far, maybe.
I dunno as I saw anything particularly racist in the critics' responses over here. I was more puzzled by their yawning dismissals than anything else - I dunno, maybe I'm unconsciously glossing over stuff other people are puzzling over but I really didn't find either film particularly difficult to follow. I don't think they're perfect - there are niggling little things you could see being done better - but I thought they were both excellent films, regardless of one's background in oriental studies or anything. I've never read up on the Triads or the early history of Hong Kong; the closest I've ever got is several James Clavell novels. ;) Even trying to be objective it was just really difficult to see anything that would make people outright go "what's that? what'd he say? what's going on? damn it, I don't understand!" Like the thing about getting Jimmy to turn the syndicate into a family affair - seemed fairly obvious to me this was just the most obvious way of saying "so we'll control you in HK, and your children, and your children's children and you'll never be free of us".
I admit it's pretty dark, though, more so than the first film. Carrying a visual metaphor a touch too far, maybe. <_<
Oh, and I didn't really have a problem with The Man With The Tan, but then I don't turn rabid the moment a pretty face turns up in my Asian movies. Unlike some people. :P I'm actually, you know, looking forward to Dog Bite Dog, and don't feel the need to scrub my eyes with steel wool every time I see Edison Chen's face or anything.
I think that everything Election did wrong, Election 2 did right. Well, I wouldn't say "wrong," but things that I found less than grand. The confusion in story, the long setup of characters, etc. I think being able to start up the second film already knowing the characters helped a lot, and definitely wouldn't have been as good were it not a sequel. At first, I couldn't really get into Election... something about it didn't sit right with me. However, I loved Election 2, and it helped me to better like and understand the original.
Also seconded on loving the fishing scene, that was great.
thanks for the thoughts - glad to see so many liked it and many similar reactions to it also... i had forgotten the UK generally has a good reaction to HK movies, the HK scenes here in the late 80s early 90s was huge and many of those people are still around and watching similar things where possible. as for the confusion over characters, as i and others experienced in 'election' - i think all ensemble casts are hard to distinguish, and it takes a great director plus a little luck to get it right : i couldnt even follow the characters in a movie like 'reservoir dogs' because there were too many characters, read into that what you will... i still think theres no racism in the reviews, theres no hint of similar poor thinking towards such films elsewhere in so-called world cinema reviews. again, its an experience issue.
Hi !
I'm not a big J.To fan, saw only RunningOutOfTime and BreakingNews from him. The laster was good, but i HATED those fart-jokes......they ruined the whole movie....
but then i was election 1.
after the first time i thought.....that's actually good and found myself the NEXT day watching the movie AGAIN with some friends.
since then i saw him 4x and I just can't help it. there are some "murky" decisions in storylogic but I found my next GoodFellas-movie (another gangster-movie which grew on me over time).
Not that they are thematically similar, I just have the same attachment to and respect for this movie like for GoodFellas.
and then came Election2...and i think i will have to see it 4x at least again ! I like how the story is expanded to the more political realm and the nods to the old movie and the shifting positions of the triads.
i have not any background in HK-history and I understood both movies very well, with the first, only after the 2nd viewing did
I rememeber all the names+faces, 2nd time now it's no problem
to follow whos who.
and the movie wouldnt bee any worse if they talked MORE !!!!!
I just love the scene where jimmy tries to warn his friend about the chinese police !
just watched it - very very good! even better than the first, imho. a bit easier to follow, too - but without becoming too "simplistic".
louis koo, although not the greatest actor, does a passably convincing job - enough that i am now less apt to just dismiss his ability.
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