Well, I didn't see this one coming. JoBlo have just scored news that Charlize Theron, apparently something of a Park Chan Wook fan, is planning to produce and star in a remake of Lady Vengeance, the final installment of Park's Vengeance Trilogy. This is not the first time one of these titles has been targeted for remake, obviously, but with Justin Lin's take on OldBoy seemingly stalled out this may well be the first to actually get done ...
What the fuck?! Another damned Hollywood remake of another classic. It hasn't been 3 years yet and now they're already remaking "Lady Vengeance" with Charlize Theron?
Hollywood is crazy. First it was "The Ring" a remake of "Ringu" starring that blond-haired woman who was freaking around with King Kong, then it was "The Grudge" another Japanese horror remake of "Juon" and that had Buffy playing in that.
Now they're going after Korean cinema! That's it, I'm threw with Hollywood and going to the movies in general.
Jebus fucking crist, hollywood is doing it again. Go and make new stuff instead of rehashing movies from other place/times and so on, you lazy fucks.
That said, the best that can be hoped for with a remake is better production values or a re-invisioning. But Korean films have just as much production value as Hollywood films, so exact remakes a completely pointless.
I think a lot of the hatred stems from something that is a cherished form of art for some people (Chevalier) to be repackaged for an audience that refuses to give it any time to begin with (Pat Buchanan, teenage girls). We don't repaint Picasso because we don't understand it. However, I do think it's a different case altogether if the director who is remaking the film is using the original as a catalyst to create a unique and personal work on his own, maybe like A FIstful of Dollars or something. It doesn't rile me too much, as pretty much most of these remade Asian films in America for the past decade have been lame as hell (except for the Departed) and I just ignore them. It's fortunate that they don't really tout the original director's name too much on these remakes, because you can pretty much feel Banjong Pisanthanakun's pain deep in his gut without having to ever even know the guy. The majority of the U.S. remakes are indeed from Asia, and their numbers are growing, so it's hard not to be angry about Amercian moviemakers being lazy and ripping off films and in the same breath not have it to do anything with Asia (then in a distant second would be the UK, Europe, Africa... wherever else a slightly alien culture could be tightened and tuned to an audience that'll watch it and forget about it a few days later). In contrast, Park's Lady Vengeance is impossible to forget and is, without a doubt, a work of art. Now, in my opinion, the same cannot be said for a lot of the Asian films that were remade in the past, but that's due to my consideration of Park being an amazing director regardless of his ethnicity and realizing that not every film from Asia is gold. I think his work is too important to be retranslated because a few million people have issues reading their own language in subtitles. I think that with Tarkovsky too, but there just had to be two Solaris', didn't there? It's a troubling and dividing issue for sure, but people like Scorsese and Leone show that good can come from it.
But, in the end, I think "don't like it, don't watch it" pretty much sums it all up.
Very well said Pusheye. There are minor points in there where I'd disagree, but that's just quibbling.
What I don't get, though, and what happened in this case is when you see the same person praising an American remake of an American film as a positive thing while simultaneously heaping damnation on an Asian film. It's just weird and it happens all the time. I got into this once when a guy said - literally - that Roy Lee should be shot for remaking Asian films because this was somehow disrespectful to the original films and film makers. Asked the guy why those same film makers keep working with Lee if they feel so horribly disrepected and got no response at all. Asked the guy if he considered Takashi Miike remaking The Quiet Family as Happiness of the Katakuris disrespectful and he said that was fine because it was Asians remaking Asians and they were all basically the same. Seriously.
Where's the outrage when Asian film makers remake an American film? Happens all the time. Benny Chan's remaking Cell Phone right now. Did people freak out when Ole Bornedal remade his own Night Watch in English for English audiences? Or Haneke with Funny Games? And while it's a very different film than the original I'm actually quite fond of the Soderbergh Solaris and heard not a single soul saying he was disrespecting Russia while he was making it.
There just seems to be this bizarre, irrational hatred when it comes to Hollywood remakes of Asian films that doesn't apply anywhere else. Are there a lot of bad remakes? Sure there are. But ask yourself if the proportion of bad remakes is worse than the proportion of bad films in general. I don't think so at all ... film's film. Some are good, most are bad, and if a remake helps steer some people to a superior original than more power to 'em.
If she bites into a Big Mac at the end, I'll shoot the projectionist.
Nah I don't care much at all for Lady Vengeance and honestly think that if they want to rejig big asian films, there are easier/better examples out there with a greater chance of filtering through unscathed. Like whatever happened to that Chaos remake that was tied to DeNiro?
Hatred for Americans remaking Asian films is now more or less ingrained, no matter how irrational.
I agree with Todd and Pusheye that it's no biggie to me, but it wasn't long ago that a remake meant you might never see the original because the studio that was about to release or develope a remake just... sat on it.
And if this one makes money than comes Oldboy than Mr. Vengence and then it never stops.
My guess is that it's like when a cult band becomes popular their oldest and most hard core fans stop listening to them because they've "sold out" or have become more mainstream.
It seems to irritate people that teenagers and mall hoppers listen to the same stuff they do and therefore don't want anything to do with it because they don't want to have the same interest as those types of people. They want to have this little "secret" for themselves without it being watered down for the masses.
Us foreign film fans know of many brilliant films that the average teenager or Joe Six Pack will never see and we like that. We like our little niche place and in some way we look down on those who fill the multiplexes when Meet the Spartans premiers. To think that these same idiots will be able to enjoy something that we discovered first and that is rightly ours is unthinkable to some. Let them have their The Hottie and the noties and their Epic Movies but leave our little gems alone.
I'm one of those who think remaking foreign films is stupid but I know why it's done. I grew up in a country where foreign films are abundant, we don't dub films for the marked and we learn english pretty much by watching subtitled movies. It bugs me to think about remakes because 98% of the time they end up being pretty bad but I also have the privilege to be able to watch the original any time I want so I don't let it bother me too much.
I also have to confess that I was once asked to write an outline for a remake for Miike's Audition. Fortunately that project is dead in the water for now.
But I for one don't see the financial point of remaking a movie like Lady Vengeance. It's never going to be mainstream, the story is to unconventional, and it's never going to appeal to the major movie going crowd. It's always going to be in the art house territory so I simply don't see the reason.
There have been many great points made on this topic. I fully comprehend Chevalier's frustration over remakes. I don't think the studios are remaking the films because they're trying to create their own version of a great film. They simply want to emulate the success. They could easily lift a foreign film's plot and refashion it. But they want to sell it as a remake so everyone will think it's the same thing, just Americanized for us in the U.S.
But I think, for fans of the Asian films that are remade, it almost seems insulting, more so than remakes of domestic movies. I know it's really the foreign language that does it -- that makes studios film an American language version -- but it almost insinuates that the Asian cast/crew wasn't good enough, that an American director can do better. I understand that's simply not the case, but the idea still lingers in the mind.
And I don't think it's just the remake of Asian films that piss people off. Why the hell did George Sluizer remake his own movie, THE VANISHING? His original was excellent, and the U.S. version is not nearly as good. VANILLA SKY, anyone? Some people weren't fond of Alejandro Amenábar's original, OPEN YOUR EYES, but I loved it and thought the remake was a waste of time. Does it all boil down to the animosity for subtitles? Perhaps.
And for me, personally, remakes of Asian films are just a reminder of how Asian films are generally treated, especially HK flicks. What's worse: Making an American version, or chopping 20 minutes of the film, rescoring it, dubbing it into English, and slapping on a new title? Can we Americans only appreciate the Chinese if they're kicking each other's asses? Should we cut out the plot to an HK movie and avoid listening to them speak in their native tongue?
Some remakes work, and I agree with Todd that remakes may even open some people's eyes and cause them to seek out the original (Miike's remake of THE QUIET FAMILY piqued my interest in Kim Ji-woon, who has since become one of my favorite directors -- and where the hell is his new one, BTW?!). But, sadly, I think the overwhelming majority of people will not only disregard the source film, but most of them won't even realize that what they're watching is a damn remake.
So if the U.S. wants to remake foreign films, fine. Some of them will be okay, a few may even surpass the original, and some of them will suck a great deal of ass. If you love a foreign film, you want others to see it, and watching it being remade is irritating. But look at all these Twitch readers. These people know what's happening. Mainstream audiences may insult your favorite Asian flick, but while you're screaming, "Goddamn fascist studios!", just remember that, somewhere, there's someone else thinking the same thing.
Fanboy comment: She should die.
Seriously, if you love something, you don't ruin it for everyone else.
I hate remakes of any industry. Be it American or Asian. I haven't seen Lady Vengeance yet, but I am still skeptical on the quality of the movie. I'm pretty sure the Lady Vengeance was a fantabulous movie and for someone to remake it is sad.
Hollywood needs to think of better ideas. Stop taking others ideas and try to remake it into garbage like they've been doing with all their remakes.
Sarkoffagus mentioned that most people who watch remakes disregard the film source or don't even know its a remake. I completely agree. Most of my friends who've seen The Departed or any horror remake don't even consider watching the originals, and even go as far to insinuate that the American version has got to be better simply because the original in Asian.
For me, the purpose of remakes is to repackage a film for the regular American public who view most foreign cinema as either too highbrow or of lesser quality than American films. Only a curious small percentage of the people who see those will be turned onto the source material. People get upset with remakes of Asian films because it comes down to some producers saying, "Yeah, its a great film, except for all those Asians in it. More people here will see it if it has Americans." I think people are less inclined to get riled up about European remakes because their are so much less of them then Asian remakes, and remakes of old films because modern interpretations of old stories has been going on for ages.
Whatever your view is, the fact is that most American remakes are for the American Idol crowd who hardly watch any foreign or independant cinema. The disregard for the original's culture and people seems to suggest a lack of respect on the part of the Hollywood producer's, whether that is valid or not. Personally, as I watched the Departed, I kept thinking how the original creators felt when every Asian in the film was portrayed as a sniveling bad guy, and when they credited it as a Japanese film at the Oscars. I don't know if anyone felt the same way, but that is what comes into my mind when that film is brought up.
I don't understand why so many hollywood actors say they are big fans of movies and that they would like to remake them, like Will Smith recently saying he would like to remake Rio Grande because hes such a big fan, surely if they love these films that much they'd want to leave them alone and not destroy the memories of them...
Same for Nicolas Cage's "Gone in 60 Seconds".
I'm on the fence about this.
On one hand I hate that it's done entirely for business/imaginary property rights reasons and not for the love of story telling, good acting, or anything along those lines — it's a lazy cash-grab, basically. I hate that it means the stubborn people who refuse to read subtitles get a glimpse of something good, but will never know it's a remake (of something they'd dismiss in its natural form), when really they should be punished in some gratifying (for me) way.
On the other hand, 4,000 years ago we were 'remaking' classic stories every night by the camp fire too. It seems the good stories only stick if they're told again and again and again.
So it looks like this remake is the brainchild of Chan-wook Park himself.
via MTV
“He made an almost perfect film," Theron says, "[but] he came to me and said he really wanted us to do this. He wanted to see that story told in an American society. If he wasn’t so encouraging I don’t think I could go through with it. We’re intimidated almost beyond belief.” She also says that the project is in "very, very early stages of development," so it might not ever happen.
...so I guess that ends that. Just looking back at some of these comments, might I suggest a wine to go with that crow?
Touché.
I still don't believe this will ever be made. And then boy, oh, boy, I tremble for the amount of Kill Bill comparisons that many of the dunderheaded mainstream media are going to make if this does get any sort of release.
Goodness, that alters the plot, doesn't it? Tuck my tail and colour me whiney.
Still, as with Haneke's enthusiastic shot-for-shot remake of his 'Funny Games', I can't imagine Park being so eager to see an American remake of his film if his first film found warmer Stateside welcome in the first place.