May 05, 2005

Star Wars: Revenge of the Sith Reviews

(Posted In)

There are two reviews listed here, one right after the other. Todd's, the first one, sounds really pro. Mine, the second one, just has a lot of revealing stuff - and sounds like it was written by just some schmuck watching a movie. Either way, here we go: -d

Here's a back handed compliment for you: Star Wars: Revenge of the Sith is pretty easily the best of the three prequels. Seems like a nice thing to say ... what's so back handed about that? Well, the first two films were so bad that being "better" in no way necessitates being "good". And good this aint.

I got the chance to see an invitation only screening of Revenge of the Sith today - a bit of karmic payback for bringing folk along to see an early screening of Shaun of the Dead a while back - and jumped all over it hoping against hope that this would be the film where Lucas redeems himself, but no.

On the plus side is that - other than an ill-advised Tarzan yodel from a wookie swinging on a vine - Lucas stays away from the kiddy humor that marred the first two films so badly. This has a much more serious tone with Anakin and Obi-Wan both finally allowed to flex some serious muscle without having to mug for the camera. This is a good thing. On the negative side ... well ... pretty much everything else ...

I'm not going to spend a lot of time on plot line since that's already been widely publicized but I won't make any attempt to avoid spoiler territory from this point on, so be warned ...

Right. Anakin turns into Darth Vader. The film in a nutshell. Lucas has been sitting on this basic story idea for well on thirty years now, so how far wrong could he go? How many mistakes are there to make? Judging from the bursts of unintended laughter and the handful of people who just got up and walked out part way through the film - a fairly shocking thing at an invite-only screening - there are lots.

First is the script. Lucas can't write. At all. This was very obvious in the previous two films and equally obvious here. The pacing is bad and the dialogue simply atrocious. While the first film shoveled the lion's share of bad lines onto Jake Lloyd and good ol' Jar-Jar - limited to a couple of non-speaking appearances in this one - and the second hit Hayden Christiansen, this one is just cruel beyond words to Natalie Portman. And I'll bet she's wishing it was literally beyond words as she here gives BY FAR the worst performance of her career. But what's a girl to do? She's got to say what's on the page. Every scene Portman is in is a bad one. Every single scene. The chemistry between Padme and Anakin, which is rather important in the overall scheme of things? Non-existent. Don't get mad at the poor girl, pity her.

Second are the massive leaps in logic and holes in plot and motivation large enough to drive a truck through. There are far too many of these to count, but here are the biggies. Anakin and Padme are in a clandestine marriage which, as the film makes a very big deal of in their first scene together, if anyone learns of will cost Padme her place in the Senate and Anakin his position with the Jedi. Do they try to hide this relationship? Only if kissing in full view of twenty or thirty other politicians and living in the same house counts as hiding. Otherwise, no. Also, Padme is very visibly pregnant. I'd say about seven months along. And yet nobody seems to know that she's carrying twins. Que? You're living in a civilization with massively advance medical technology and you don't know you've got two kids in there rather than one? It's not that hard to tell, really. Here in our primitive times we do ultrasounds within the first couple months of pregnancy that would make the twinnage perfectly obvious. Do Senators not have medical coverage? Get to a doctor, woman!

A bit picky, those ones? How about this? Anakin's primary reason for choosing the dark side is his concern for Padme's health after having visions that she will die in childbirth. He is told that he can save her if he chooses the dark side and runs off to slaughter a room full of children in training to be Jedi. Again, we are in a massively advanced civilization. The character in question is already sporting an entire synthetic arm and the entire audience is aware that he will soon be alive only because there is medical technology capable of rebuilding him from the ground up. You want me to believe that turning on your friends and slaughtering a roomful of children on behalf of a man you know to be evil and plotting the overthrow of the Republic you have sworn and trained to protect is a better option than just taking your supposedly clandestine wife to get a C-section? Come on ... suspension of disbelief will only get you so far. If you have already established that your world has access to incredibly advanced medicine you simply cannot ignore that entire established structure in something as key as this. Not only does Anakin's 'motivation' not ring true it rings completely and laughably ridiculous. Just as ridiculous as the teary dialogue he shares with his poorly scripted wife.

Okay, enough of that. How about the action? Well, despite a similarly horrible script The Phantom Menace managed to salvage a good deal of entertainment value thanks to having the most compelling Jedi / villain combo in the Star Wars universe's history in Liam Neeson and Ray Park. The rest of the film may have been brutal but Darth Maul flat out ruled. No such luck here. After giving the Jedi the big finish in Episode Two with sabers flashing and bodies falling, in Episode Three the Jedi fall without a whimper. And were you looking forward to the big wookie battle? Don't. It's over in the blink of an eye and features not much at all to look at. Lucas clearly has no Ray Park here and the film feels the absence. None of these people can actually fight which makes for some rather dull fight scenes. Any number of Asian films have done the supernaturally powered fight thing so much better than Lucas that his thunder has been stolen. The bar has been raised and he just doesn't reach the new level. Even Dark City with its much smaller budget manages to do a far more convincing job of mind-control as a weapon than Lucas can pull off here.

The film too often falls into the Sky Captain Syndrome: animated characters fighting other animated characters simply is not interesting. But these are real people, you're saying. Not really. General Grievous is totally synthetic and totally lacking in any of the requisite villain charisma. Not menacing, not frightening, not impressive. Yoda is also obviously false, and while digital Yoda may be more mobile than puppet Yoda, puppet Yoda was far more expressive and believable in his interaction with human actors than digital Yoda will ever be. The others? Any time they do something remotely interesting they have been completely removed from the film and replaced by CG. Ridiculous back flips o'plenty and every single one of them is obviously false. Gimme a guy in a wire rig over a digital painting any day.

Which brings up the next obvious problem: the CGI. Lucas is wildly over dependent upon it and it hurts the film. Part of what allowed people to buy into the original trilogy was the fusion of special effects with model and puppet shots. Things were obviously being created but they were tangible and tactile which allowed you to accept them more easily. No such luck here. If it's not a person it's digital and even a lot of the people exist only in the computer. WETA showed us this can be done convincingly with Gollum but there is nothing, absolutely nothing, here that even approaches that level of believability and photo-realism. With the digital characters and environments both it almost feels as though ILM forgot to put the final layer of texturing on everything. Everything looks plastic with densities and light textures all the same, and it's just not believable. If you're going to put actual human actors into a digital environment then that digital environment absolutely must hit a believable level of photo-realism and these clearly do not. It looks like a good piece of Photoshop work or a solid trailer for a high end PS2 game.

So. Yeah. If you enjoyed the first couple Episodes you will likely enjoy this. The mistakes here are - believe it or not - not quite as plentiful or as serious. But if those first couple films left you feeling that your childhood had just been trampled upon: stay away. Better, but not good.

Review Number Two 1 Screening + No Non-Disclosure Agreement = Spoilers galore. Hang on to your tits. First, I'll say this: I'm going to spill the beans on a bunch of bare facts then touch on the general stuff. So fer Pete's sake, don't read this if the Star Wars theme gives you a woody.

Here's the situation: 4 guys went to see ROTS. And, although the lot of you, deep down, know this will already be the case for the grand lot of Star Wars fans, I'm going to tell you how things looked between us at the film's end because it makes an interesting anecdote.

  Guy #1: Loves Star Wars and therefore, loved 'Revenge of the Sith'.
  Guy #2: Is the biggest Star Wars fan I've ever known in my life: Thought it was great, but its bad parts reduced it to a 7 out of 10 for him.
  Guy #3: (Me) Has always liked Star Wars and has had problems with the other prequels. Found as many good things as bad. Gave it 5 out of 10.
  Guy #4: (Todd) Todd is very intelligent and is all about media and everything film. As you may have read, he watched the movie for what it is, a MOVIE, and hated it.
Take all that for what you will.

I've decided to add this next Good/Bad part of the review as to make my review seem abit more middle-of-the-road. Which was exactly my take.

Good Stuff:
  Lightsabers. LOTS.
  Star Battles. Very pretty too look at. Exaggerated but very nice.
  Choreography is good, but will also depend on your acceptance of CGI.
  Anakin's relationship with the Chancellor.
  Watching Darth Vader get outfitted for the first time and taking his first breath.
  Watching the entire Saga you've known your whole life finally come full circle.
In short, pretty much all the basics you're going to see the movie for in the first place.

Bad Stuff:
  The dialogue. Sincerely horrid. Makes Episode 2 look amazing. WILL be nominated for a Razzie, I guarantee it. If you can see past it, congratulations on being blind.
  The Wookie Battle. In fact, "What wookie battle?" is more like it.
  The abscence of acting direction. This fact, coupled with the horrid dialogue makes for some of the most strained, cringing moments I've ever seen on film.
  Overuse of CGI. To be expected, but still annoying.
  I know it's only a couple of seconds, but the Tarzan yell is stupid.
  Glaring plot-holes. Ani and Padme's "secret" relationship. Padme's impending death. See Todd's review for more input on those, because they really are obvious. And if folks will say they aren't important anyway, then they shouldn't have been written in the first place.

Some Overall Questions/Rumours Answered:
  IS IT AN IMPROVEMENT?: Yes.
Is it darker? - Yes. You even see severed heads roll around. More than once even.
Is Jar Jar in it? - Yes. He appears in 2 scenes and his total line count is: wait for it, ZERO.
What's the Wookie Battle like?: Oh, you're gonna be PISSED about this one. Have you seen the trailer? You know that shot with wookies raising their fists? Yeah, well the ENTIRE "Wookie Battle" is roughly the 6 seconds that follow.. a clip of them running down the beach to face the onslaught, a shot or two of returning fire....and... end of scene. Yup. That's it."Thanks Mr. Mayhew, tell your agent that's all we needed from you."
Is that leaked "burnt Anakin" picture from last year real? Yup.
  George Lucas does remember to include (though it's out of nowhere) a memory wipe of C3PO to seal that potential continuity error.
  Something I wasn't expecting, George Lucas brings up the midichlorians again. Just once.

Things I learnt from Revenge of the Sith:

  Painting more lasers into a picture doesn't necessarily make a better battle scene. (though the battles are nice, make no mistake)
  If both of your feet are off the ground at the same time, you instantly turn digital.
  The sadder you are, the more still you stand.
--That cut next to your eye never heals.
  Spinning a lightsabre = Fighting with a lightsabre.
  While swinging from ropes, Wookies like to bellow the "Tarzan Yell". (I'm not f*cking kidding).

Let's talk about the movie...
WAR! Is the first word on the yellow crawl we've all grown to love... Let's dive into a world you didn't think could possibly exist: That world is.. The Land with Dialogue Even Cheesier than Episode 2. Yeah, that's right your "smooth and silky" line has been trumped folks. My heart goes out to these fully capable actors that have been handed dialogue so painfully bad. Sudden requests of "Hold me" or "'...I love you -No, I love ~you~'" to rail-stiff declarations of "Oh Ani, you're breaking my heart..." make viewing such scenes about as fun as drinking your grandfather's catheter bag. I hold nothing against these actors who are sincerely talented at what they do, being asked to speak such horrid lines with hardly any acting direction coming from.. say... oh.. the director. I'd fold in half if this stuff was handed to me. Every opening of every "chatty" scene would beckon a nervous "oh, here we go" from the audience and close with a "oh, thank GOD". And hey, I like Natalie Portman, she's extremely talented, but man... I've heard rumour she's fed up with her role in the Star Wars saga and No Bloody Wonder. It's visible she's doing what she can, but it's wildly plain that good ol' George is giving them not a shred of help. I counted at least 8 or nine different occasions where I bit my lip while grabbing anything worth grabbing -my penis included- praying that the dialogue would just freaking stop.

Fortunately, the banter does stop and we are, often, treated with yummy eye candy that we came to see. Notables here are early advancements in the X-wing and TIE fighters, but it all blows by pretty quick in an orgasmic THX sound and light show. ROTS easily contains the most lightsabre action in any film of the entire saga. (Grievous is very well endowed with his four-sabre equipped arms) So some of you will be hitting up a seat just for that. And there's plenty. Mind you, the CGI does get laid on pretty thick, which was to be expected, but doesn't make it anymore acceptable -- making a Wookie entirely CG when all he's doing is just standing there, for example, is simply silly. And like I was saying, the entire set must've been a "no-actor-jumping-zone" - because those feet can't leave the floor without the actor becoming a big cyber-floatie.

As far as characters go, for all you pervie hopefuls, There is no ..ahem.. 'scene'. All Portman-porking happens somewhere between Episode II and III. Too bad so sad. Padme is pregnant, which the long and short of it, is the reason why Anakin "turns" in the first place. Padme will die in childbirth and, as the Chancellor explains, the Dark Side has the power to stop it (some gook about tweaking the midichlorians). This whole factor is all but dropped by the time we get around to it; it is referenced a few times, but not once do we see Anakin using the Dark Side to get what he originally wanted accomplished. This was rather confusing to me, but there you are. You are told Padme is top-priority, but you're shown that she's not. Whatever. More lightsaber's will interrupt eventually and hopefully you'll forget all about all this. This whole ball starts rolling when Anakin's loyalty between the Senate vs. the Chancellor causes "much struggle in you" and eventually leads to severing of Sam Jackson's hand to keep him from killing the Chancellor when they discover that he's actually a Sith Lord. I was hoping for an"English, Mother F*cker, Can you Speak It?!?!", but it never came.

And the story folks, in a stripped down, on-paper form would be good. Errors yes, but a simple synopsis of the film would actually read fairly interesting. We all know how it's going to go, so there's really no point going into it. This sucker is just pieced together in a rather unfortunate symphony.

This movie will not clear up any debates as to what's a "good Star Wars movie". People will hate this movie. People will love it. As far as "Star Wars the Industry Icon" goes, you probably owe it to yourself to see this life-long story that's been with you since you were 3, come to a close. But I think the dues end there. Despite many pitfalls, I will admit that, of course, most of you will get what you came for: The Saga's End. Space Battles. Lightsaber Stew. A solid, glorious "bask-in-the-moment" of the creation of Darth-Vader. (Followed by a really cheesy: "Noooooo!") And a closing that leads us right into Episode 4 where all of this amazing nonsense started almost 30 years ago.

For Every part in RotS that I enjoyed watching, there was an equal number of parts that I could do with never seeing again. So, if you're looking for a numeric stat rating: Id give it straight down the middle 2 out of 4 - or 5 out of 10, etc.

Overall, I'm sad to see that the enormous chapter of Star Wars, as it rests in our culture, has come to a close. There's many memories of Star Wars I'll always have. On the Other Hand However: I'm glad to see that the Pre-quels are finally over. Revenge of the Sith is certainly the better of the pre-quels, but if you're hoping for a film to justify the first 2, well, let's just say I'm amazed that a director who spends so much time, money, energy and research on making his film state-of-the-art, would spend so little time actually working with the people acting in it. Because it shows. In spades. -d

» Posted by Todd at May 5, 2005 04:10 PM
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Reader Comments

i couldn't finish reading the article cause my eyes are starting to bleed but i have one thing to say:

i am not suprised.

» Posted by jason at May 5, 2005 05:06 PM

I don't think I've ever made anyone's eyes bleed before ... hurray for me!

» Posted by Todd at May 5, 2005 05:14 PM

Laugh out loud funny review. I don't know if you know Walter Chaw over at film-freak central, but he wrote a hilarous review of SWe2 ATC. if you haven't read it!! : http://filmfreakcentral.net/screenreviews/episodeii.htm

» Posted by milk at May 5, 2005 05:50 PM

well, not bleeding but feeling very very hot like they were on fire and might possible explode; i'll finish reading it eventually. it could just be the long boring day i've had at work staring at a monitor and then looking at paragraphs upon paragraphs of white text on black.

» Posted by jason at May 5, 2005 06:21 PM

damnit. I was hoping it wasn't so god awfully bad. I'll still see it of course, but my expectations are super low now.

» Posted by hamachi at May 5, 2005 06:29 PM

Ah ... that second review was from the web-monkey who was seated next to me at the screening ... web-monkey's make me laugh ...

» Posted by Todd at May 5, 2005 08:14 PM

What?!?! Not even a shout out to the guy who brought you to the show!?!? AND bought you lunch?

» Posted by The Movie Blog at May 5, 2005 08:42 PM

Wasn't sure if I'd get you in trouble ...

» Posted by Todd at May 5, 2005 09:06 PM

Let me guess! [Okay, fire away] What we have here is a bunch of wannabe indie filmmakers [filmmakers?] trashing ROTS because it's cool. [Well hero, Todd lashed out on RotS because he thought it was poorly done. I said it's better but more of the same. Call that trashing if you want.] Oh well, you've told us. [Yup.] I've seen the film [Yeah sure you have], and it is very good, Not great [damn straight], but very good. It's obvious that you twits totally lost your mind and didn't connect the dots. [Listen Terrell, you don't know us, you obviously love Star Wars: good for you. If you think Star Wars is the best Cinematic thing ever created, there's nothing we can say against that, and of COURSE you'll have a different opinion then us. The parts that we thought were bad, we really didn't like. That's it. You've really got to get off this 'insult people just because you don't agree with them' thing. Grow up.]

The funny thing is Lucas has forgotten more about filmmaking in the last 5 minutes than any of you twats will know in 10 lifetimes. [Re-phrase this, because it's rubbish.]

Your reviews are filled with factual errors [The wonderful thing about opinions is they CAN'T be wrong.] and plotholes too [Our reviews have plots?]. This review is not only incoherent [you seemed to understand it quite well], and you criticize Lucas' writing [a LOT of people do, you know - they're the people you consider transparent assholes], but it is as transparent and disingenious as the fools who wrote it. [too many undefined pronouns here, but if you just called Lucas' writing transparent and disingenious, then good for you.]

joe asshole

» Posted by Joe at May 5, 2005 10:37 PM

No, I'm trashing the film because Lucas can't write his way out of a paper bag and is so over-reliant on technical tricks that his films have lost whatever soul they may have had.

The man pretty much hates working with actors and it shows in every frame. This is a man who once famously told Ron Howard - then an aspiring director working FOR LUCAS as an ACTOR on American Graffitti - that if he wanted to be a film maker he should become an animator so that he would never have to deal with actors. This is also a man who has recorded full length audio commentaries for both of the prior prequels without once commenting on any of his characters or the actors' performances. Not once. That's staggering.

To paraphrase (and only because I don't have the exact quote in front of me) Harrison Ford: "It's easy to write this shit, George, but you don't have to say it."

» Posted by Todd at May 5, 2005 10:44 PM

Hey! This is fun! According to someone on milleniumfalcon.com Dave and I are "Wanna-be self important indie film asshats", "Another waste of life" and "assholes". Some people take their films a little too seriously. And one of them has an avatar that is Kermit the Frog sodomizing Yoda. Nothing to inspire respect like a little bit of muppet love ...

» Posted by Todd at May 5, 2005 11:14 PM

George Lucas is a fucking hack.

» Posted by fannyslacks at May 5, 2005 11:23 PM

"The funny thing is Lucas has forgotten more about filmmaking in the last 5 minutes than any of you twats will know in 10 lifetimes." Who are you really insulting here? Go back to beating your wife and let these guys do what they're more than capable of doing.

» Posted by reneedo at May 5, 2005 11:36 PM

A review is just one's personal opinion. There is no need to get heated up over the fact that you liked the movie and the reveiwer did'nt.

» Posted by loonatik at May 6, 2005 12:20 AM

Thank you loon -- How come no one gets this mad when I don't like Police Academy movies?

Todd and I both think that "It's the best of the prequels" - while that may mean different things, I'm getting a kick on how many people have decided to slam our personalties over a movie opinion. Let alone a movie they haven't even seen yet.

» Posted by dave at May 6, 2005 03:03 AM

i am sure theres an absolute deluge of people out there that somehow the arthouse / obscure / foreign movie fans as being unable to understand mainstream film. its all too often the opposite, you kind of get to a stage where you feel so familiar with mainstream / obvious / american cinema that you need something a little different / less familiar / less commercially inclined to get a decent film experience.... the films we cover here for the most part are fairly obvious things in other countries (often i think) and yet cause strange behaviour from mainstream / hollywood fans because they seem to think it has intentional eletist tendencies...
i am sure there are fans out there like that, some may visit the site - for me, i need something different to appreciate rather than the latest popcorn-selling eyecandy.

remember ... just because you cant see whats in something, doesnt mean there nothing in it to be seen. and that is how a lot of people seem to think.

» Posted by logboy at May 6, 2005 05:53 AM

logboy...well said.

» Posted by Triflic at May 6, 2005 08:36 AM

well, there go all my hopes and dreams for the future. But I'm still getting a Darth Dew slushee at the next 7-eleven I see.

» Posted by tracy at May 6, 2005 10:01 AM

Hehe, looks like those guys at millenniumfalcon.com are a bit in denial. According to them RotS is only getting positive reviews. The negative reviews don't count, because they are all just written by "bashers". How convenient.

That said, I'm looking forward to seeing this. I know what I can expect and my hopes aren't high, which is why I'll probably be able to just enjoy it as a fun popcorn flick.

» Posted by Geert Jan at May 6, 2005 10:39 AM

I will (insert violent act here) you Todd....fah on you!!! You are a dunderhead, an underwear sniffing goggle eyed over critical juggernaut of negativity.

THERE now that Todd has been put in his place can all the fanboys get back to living real lives.

» Posted by Canfield at May 6, 2005 10:43 AM

Hey, how do you know he sniffs underwear?

» Posted by reneedo at May 6, 2005 10:57 AM

uh...

» Posted by Canfield at May 6, 2005 11:39 AM

"Go back to beating your wife"
Wife? Ha ha ha...this nerd is probably still in his mothers basement. Or if he isn't, single.
I don't hate the prequels because I'm a indie wannabe (how can they make that assesment when the Star Wars films are indie films), I hate them because they are shitty movies.

» Posted by Swarez at May 6, 2005 12:09 PM

sterotyping like that is part of the reason the guys so rattled by the reviews - they are sterotyping todd / the less obvious film fans... i dont think we should be stereotyping them in return. solves nothing.

not a jibe - just trying to keep it all reasonable.

» Posted by logboy at May 6, 2005 01:57 PM

oh logboy, quit bein' right...

*flashing the Bird to make myself feel better*

» Posted by dave at May 6, 2005 02:18 PM

I think Dave's just angry because he's demonstrated his skill with a lightsaber but was not cast in any of the prequels. And Todd is just of a generally angry disposition. Did you check to see if that lame comment was written by someone in one of Lucasfilm or something? That's always hilarious when someone from the film company tries to pass as an 'average Joe' (in this case, Joe Asshole).

» Posted by Bart Wang at May 6, 2005 03:53 PM

According to his Ip he was in Atlanta ...

» Posted by Todd at May 6, 2005 04:50 PM

I can't help but feel strange about a story (Star Wars) that can capture such magic and beuty and sheer astonishment ONLY when the creator of said story stays as far away from it as is humanly possible...
Sigh...I'm going to go play Knights of the Old Republic, make myself feel beter about being a Star Wars fan.

By the way, wouldn't it have made more sense for Lucas to have left Vader out of Ep.3, then when watched all together (1,2,3,etc.) someone who had never watched Star Wars before could at least have some shock when they watch Empire? Just a random thought.

» Posted by Chris at May 6, 2005 09:47 PM

When I saw first episode, I understood that Anakin became Dart Vader.
I waited for this film to long!
I want to see the final episode anyway!
So interesting, how Anakin got this black mask

» Posted by Vladimir at May 7, 2005 11:00 AM

'revenge of the brick' trailer.

entire 'revenge of the sith' script.

» Posted by logboy at May 8, 2005 05:11 AM

Where the first or last order of a day is precisely that on a timeline, and the first and last cars from an assembly line are precisely those, regardless of style or technology, films come out and they are OUT, and nothing else should determine the order you see them in.

Asshole Joe does make a very good point about Lucas having forgotten more about filmmaking than we could ever hope to. We should admire all those fans, however, who have kept pace by never learning about any of the films that have come between his own.

And yeah. Around here pre-sale tickets have been two percent per screen, with a whopping 17% "sellout" on the midnight preview on May 18. Is it that we are not Properly Excited? Or have real fans finally been weaned?

» Posted by remaker at May 8, 2005 06:04 PM

It always saddens me when wannabe filmmakers with so litlle to show for themselves throw stones at such a large target.
Whatever you may think of Lucas as a filmmaker, you're not even that good. Am I wrong? What film have you written and directed that millions love?
Funny how it is the people who have never made a feature film - and never will - that have the most opinions on how films should be made. Must be frustrating going through life being so smart and talented and not being acknowledged as such. By the way, I didn't think TPM or AOTC were good films, but I'm not deluded enough to think I can do better when I haven't even made a feature film.
The doers in this world simply do. You can like or hate what they've done. Then there are those who jerk-off over how they could have done better. But, of course, they will never do anything because it's safer and easier to point out the mistakes of others.

» Posted by Grey at May 9, 2005 04:45 AM

You only think that we think "we could've done better" because we aren't saying happy things about your precious little movie. I'd love to know where you guys are reading where we think we could've done better. Are all of you crazy-eyed Star Wars fans like this? Or just the Manic Depressive ones?

Secondly, we both appreciate the fact that you guys over at milleniumfalcon.com think we're filmmakers. That's fantastic.

Let me ask you this my friend, what farmer's field have you grown? What food have you harvested on mass and sold to public? None? - Then how the f**k can you sit back and claim to know what food tastes really good, huh? Can you do better? Hmm? Ah yes, but you have to EAT it...
I don't know how to build a rocket either, but I know that Space Shuttle Challenger had some major flaws. Why? Because it blew up.

If we had been saying glowing things about your precious Star Wars film, we'd still be the "stupid filmmakers" that you think we are, but you wouldn't care because it would be positive.

You said it yourself: "You can like or hate what they've done." -- Well, we decided that we don't really like it; Todd moreso than I. So quit being a hypocrite and deal with it when someone doesn't like it.
Tell your buddies over at MF.com to get bloody over it. It's just a f*cking movie.

» Posted by dave at May 9, 2005 10:53 AM

To the guys who wrote these reviews:

Great job! It's obvious that the two of you love the original movies, but you weren't going to allow those feelings keep you from giving a brutally honest review. (Buried your feelings down deep did you.) Thanks for giving us the straight dope. I'm still going to see ROTS, of course, but now I'll keep the giddiness factor to a minimum to prevent a post-movie crash. George, damn you, you did it again...

» Posted by Len in Chicago at May 9, 2005 06:11 PM

Dave, I seem to have struck a chord.
Perhaps you would like to vent more expletives in my direction if it gives you satisfaction and makes you feel bigger than you actually are. It's interesting that you would get so worked up over the comments of someone you don't know. You really need more joy in your life.
Have a nice day.

» Posted by Grey at May 10, 2005 04:37 AM

You Millenium Falcon boys have brought so much joy into my life that my MSN Messenger ID is now "Wanna-be self important indie film asshat". Seriously. It makes me giggle. If there was a way to frame it, I would.

» Posted by Todd at May 10, 2005 06:57 AM

Ok, let's recap:

Dave: "RotS wasn't a very good movie."

Grey: "You're a wannabe filmmaker with so little to show for yourself. At least Lucas makes film, you only jerk-off over how you could've done better."

Dave: "I didn't even say I'm a filmmaker and that I could do better. Why are you so upset about my review?"

Grey: "I'm not upset, you're upset! You really need more joy in your life."

Now let's play 'spot the troll'.

» Posted by Geert Jan at May 10, 2005 07:06 AM

Well Grey, read the couple comments above this first.. next:

"Dave, I seem to have struck a chord."

- Dude, you're the one coming to our website to have this discussion. Whether you're here or not is irrelevant to me, but if you insist on showing up, piping up and belching your opinion at us, yes, you'll get it spit back to you.

"Perhaps you would like to vent more expletives in my direction if it gives you satisfaction and makes you feel bigger than you actually are."

- Yet another personal insult based on the fact that you're pissed off. You're amazing. Again, it's a MOVIE. Get Over It, damn...

"It's interesting that you would get so worked up over the comments of someone you don't know."

- Do us a favour and repeat this to EVERY SINGLE Star Wars fan who gets all pissed off about indifferent or negative Star Wars reviews... like... say... yourself for example. That is, after all, why you left a comment in the first place. Touche.

"You really need more joy in your life."

- Refer to my first response - I was minding my own business till you showed up. I'm not the one actively seeking discussions like this: You are. If anyone appears to be getting off on this: it's you.

"Have a nice day."

- Lick me.

» Posted by dave at May 13, 2005 04:08 AM

Dave, I think I'm in love.

» Posted by Grey at May 14, 2005 01:25 AM

"Dave, I think I'm in love."
Despite clashing thoughts, that was actually pretty damn funny.

» Posted by dave at May 14, 2005 01:36 AM

I'd like to thank you for your review.

I have quite enjoyed Star Wars, the original movies/books, and some of the games, and I think it's fair to point out that Lucas had originally intended his series to be a story for children. Seen in that context, it's much easier for me to come to terms with the fact that, now that I'm not a child, my appreciation for Star Wars plummeted with the arrival of Episodes I and II, for most of the reasons you listed above. It's a good thing that Lucas intended his movies for children, because he is so painfully incapable of telling stories to anyone else....as you have so eloquently illustrated.

The reason I am thanking you for your review, is that I had been foolishly talking myself into looking forward to it with some semblance of cobbled-together enthusiasm, in vitriolic spite of Episode II's dialogue. Now, my expectations have been artificially lowered (thanks to the review) to abyssally low, horrific my-childhood-dreams-have-all-come-smashing-down-around-me-type levels, so I'll probably end up enjoying the movie after all.

As for all your naysayers, who seem to think that everyone has to agree with them or not have an opinion, I give you this quote, from Meatwad:

"I'm dumb as hell. I'm dumb. DUMB! You probably already knew that. I sent out a press release. ...but I ate most of 'em."

Once again, I sincerely thank you for your review.

» Posted by Danohk at May 16, 2005 06:34 AM

I haven't seen the film yet but if it's true that padme DOES die in childbirth then why does Leia remeber her mother "a little bit"? HUGE gaping plot hole and no-one's mentioned it! Those that have seen it reassure me she doesn't die! It'll bug me everytime I watch ROTJ otherwise!

» Posted by Rachael at May 16, 2005 06:36 AM

Oh, and uh...I just about blew a vein out the side of my head laughing at the "...about as much fun as drinking your grandfather's catheter bag." line.

» Posted by Danohk at May 16, 2005 06:47 AM

Oh, no. Padme definitely dies. And yes, it is a big plot hole.

» Posted by Todd at May 16, 2005 04:28 PM

I concur. Anyone saying Padme doesn't die simply hasn't seen the movie. Period. End of sentence.

» Posted by dave at May 16, 2005 05:44 PM

just got back from seeing the movie.
what a steamy pile of shit.
thanks for your review, and telling us the way it really was. Still, i'm sure many people will love it (people voted for G.Bush Jr)??

» Posted by louis at May 19, 2005 02:22 AM

Just got back from the movie lastnight... I think it was the best star wars movie, if not the best movie of all time. I do admit he put a lot in there, but thats what made it so good, it was none stop on the edge of your seat. Ppl are whining, they killed of the count to soon and skywalker didnt even think twice about it. Thats the thing, you cant just plant a seed and expect it to grow into a huge plant right away, that was the seed that was planted to later develope into the big change over. Ya the wookie battle was only a few seconds long, but when were the wookies ever that important, chewie is the only wookie that is really important and he was in it, enuff said. The lightsaber battles were the best ive ever seen, the drama between padme and skywalker was pride, they made you love the relationship, then they turned the table so quickly it just hit you so hard. Thats what made this movie so good, i really felt it, like i felt it in the first one. Ppl also didnt like how mace was killed off to fast and "easily". i didnt think he was killed off easily at all, he gave hell to darth sedious (excuse my spelling) and then skywalker shocked us all bu killing mace, and it wouldnt of been a shock if it wasnt sudden, if they would of fought it just would of dragged it on. When they started killing off all the jedi, ppl thought that was stupid to, but once again if they would of dragged it on and mby kept some alive it just would of been pointless, they did a great job by doing that becuase it shocked you and got you more into it. The saber fight between skywalker and obi won....i dont no what to say, it was perfect, they told a story, not only was it amazing but how skywalker thought he was sooo powerful but then was proved wrong will later (already has in you could say) made for a very bitter darth vader. This was a great movie to end it off with, im still in awe.

» Posted by Brad at May 19, 2005 12:39 PM

when i refered to the ig change over i mean how the seed would be planted for skywalker to get intouch with the darkside/his dark feelings

» Posted by Brad at May 19, 2005 12:41 PM

While I will admit that the movie had good parts, I simply can't respect an opinion that "sith" is the best movie of all time.
I almost laughed just typing that. The best STAR WARS movie of the past decade? yeah... The best movie EVER? Gimme a break.

No point arguing with some fan's blind lust for Star Wars though.

» Posted by dave at May 19, 2005 01:19 PM

hahaha is there something wrong with you? blind lust? im not that big of a star wars fan, jesus christ are you like so obsessed with thinking you know everything about movies that you get yer kicks on lil hits like that? blind lust for star wars? hahaha mby you better give me a break, i didnt write that as a star wars fan, i wrote it as a movie fan, the reason i think its the best star wars movie is because unlike the others, it had non stop action, it always had a story that kept you interested. Not like some of the other ones where it was like "how long is this movie" for this movie it was like " its over already? but really back to the point i knew there would be people like you trashing the movie because you cant let go of the old, i admit you cant beat the old ones, well cuz thats what we grew up watchin, but really grow up and get over your ego or whatever it is that cant just relaz and enjoy how great of a movie it was lol

» Posted by Brad at May 19, 2005 02:11 PM

Brad,
While my comment was blunt, it was in no way an attack or insulting on any personal level. I'm not going to get into it with you, but calm down.

"Blind Lust" isn't a bad thing, I was stating it's something that can't be argued with. And your comment reflected that; eg: 'best movie ever' etc.

I haven't insulted you, I didn't tell you to "grow up" or pull your head out of your ass, nor did I assume your age or lack thereof, or ask you if there was "something wrong with you". I didn't take a cheap shot at other things you've liked or disliked, your spelling or education. Nothing.

I said "the best movie EVER? Gimme a break." I realize it's comfortable to say that I trashed the movie, but the last time I checked, a 5/10 was a pass. Not by much, but a pass none the less. While it had some very bad parts, it also had some good parts. Some Star Wars fans (or MOVIE fans, pardon me) take it upon themselves to get viciously defensive about their movie and take someone as not loving it as HATING it. While I likely won't bother watching Sith again soon, I certainly didn't HATE it.

I never said you couldn't like it, love it or even get an erection over it. I just can't agree with 'Sith' being the best movie ever. Because it wasn't.

That is all.

» Posted by dave at May 19, 2005 02:32 PM

yeah, i guess you can have an opinion on it despite some kind of thing you got going on. i didnt write that comment to insult anyone but if i feel insulted then im not gonna take it. but whatever i dont really care, you can say whatever you want is the best or worst movie ever thats fine, but it just sucks that you couldnt enjoy the last episode as much as i did, it was a good way to say goodbye

» Posted by Brad at May 19, 2005 02:48 PM

Back to Padme dying - could it be that Leia is referring to the wife of Jimmy Smits' character? I can't recall the specifics of that line in the original triliogy, but I remember it being there too and scratching my head over how Leia could remember her actual mother; maybe it was in reference to her foster mother.

» Posted by collin a at May 19, 2005 03:35 PM

True, While the error can be fudged over with the reason that you're saying, it is still an error. Simply because that plot angle wasn't written 22 years ago.. and Leia never mentions a "foster mother".

I imagine it may have been left on purpose simply because one could say "oh, she was talking about her foster mother".. Which can't necessarily be proven or unproven. - Even though the line for teh past 22 years has always been referencing her mother.(the line would've been "I never knew my real mother and my foster mother died when I was very young") .. In the end, It's a continuity error with a very thin excuse.

» Posted by dave at May 19, 2005 11:31 PM

also, does anyone know why younger Anakin replaced older Anakin at the end of ROTJ? wasn't this movie ment to tell us why that happened?
i could sleep last night just thinking over how crap this movie was. (i know, i'm a looser ;) I so really wanted to like this one.

» Posted by louis at May 19, 2005 11:54 PM

The reason Anakin was changed at the end of ROTJ was "George can do what he wants". Really, that's what it boils down to.

Im sure he and the fans will conjur up varying reasons for it.. But the most common one is something to the effect of "when he was young, he was good, so we reflect the spirit that most reflects that". Or some talked over silliness as such. (The thing is, when he was young, he was also bad, so.. oops!) - If that really is the case, they should've inserted Jake Lloyd's image instead.

They are george's movies and he has an itchy trigger finger for putting CGI where it's not needed. and the ROTJ Anakin ending was born.

» Posted by dave at May 20, 2005 02:57 AM

this movie really spoils the originals for me now. things needed to wrap up so much better than they did. It shits me that so much time was wasted with the filler crap in the first 2 movies.

Wasn't Darth Vader ment to hunt down and like kill all the jedi? (not just the younglings)

Why couldn't they sence the that Chancellor was a Dark Sith Lord?

And how gay was saber fight when they where floating on the larva lake. Shit, Spy Kids 3D did it heaps better that that.

And what off the big space battle at the start?? 2 jedi fighter flying around a few ships. It looked cool, but it was hardly a epic space battle. Lame George!! LAME!
The end space Battle in ROTJ kicked its ass 20 years back. And then all the ships just disapper for some reason??

I could do on and on... and on........

Give me more of the clone wars animated show. That really rocks (now that they are longer). George should have let these guys make the movie.

» Posted by louis at May 20, 2005 04:20 AM

I really enjoyed the CLONE WARS cartoons, too. ROTS was a step down from the inventive aspects of those shorts, no question.

» Posted by collin a at May 20, 2005 09:08 AM

am i the only one who thought that the dialogue in this one was better than the last two? i'd have the place it on par with rotj. not a good movie, but i still loved it in spite of its flaws.

» Posted by mediocrates at May 22, 2005 09:16 AM

A frustrated fan? you bet. Oh, not about ROTS. I thought it was great! Frustrated at alot of the responses to it! Such comments as: I didn't like how quickly he turned to the darkside...! How did Leia remember her Mother....? Blah Blah Blah. There are lot of people are becoming as whiney as Luke in a New hope!!! Lucas can't write? That's just plain ignorant. First, the opening space battle was of epic scale. Infact, if one was to open their eyes and see it, you will notice a scene that features more ships than the ROTJ battle. The difference is we are following the two jedis who are on a special mission- thus the line where Obi-wan discourages Anakin from helping the other fighters. They had to stick to their mission.
Secondly, Anakin's turn to the darkside was perfect. It has always been alluded to that once you make that plunge, it is quick and difficult to turn back from. In addition, his heart was involved. He desperatly wanted to help Padme so much he selfishly ignored all else. This is typical in humans. And again, once you take that step to the darkside, well... it has been stated before...Do not underestimate the power of the darkside.
Some are upset that a hero turns bad? Give me a break. Then watch episode 1 & 2, and the watch Return of The Jedi.(just the last 5 minutes) After that, go back to watching Orphan Annie. This is a story about how a hero falls, and yet turns backin the end. Get over it.
Leia remembering her mother? Taken in the context of what Luke was addressing, it makes perfect sense. Thse are the children of the chosen one, very strong in th force are they. When Luke asks her about her mother, she admits she does remember but mostly just a feeling. She states it like it confuses her, like she just has the unexplainable feeling. Luke, who is aware of the force and his connection to it, acts as if he thoroughly understands her feeling, and then uses that to lead into explaining how she has the same power as he (meaning the force) because she is his sister...which would explain why she 'remembers' that feeling. Just like Luke can feel Vader's presence. How much more so would the bond between a mother and child be. That say in real life that an unborn child is affected y its mother singing or reading to it. Is it really a stretch to believe that Leia could retain such a feeling as she had? Not really. She couldn't even remeber much else.
I do wish Qui-gon would have made a ghostly appearance, but then again, that was not what this film was neccessarily about.
As for Grievious...some would have liked to see him more. I thought his time was adequate. He filled his role, supportingcast and a character to drive the story progression. Anymore, and the movie would have been confusing, just like the Batman movies that decided it was a good idea to have multiple villians. The result...several shallow characters that they do not have time to devlope n 2 hours. To give Grievous more time would havetaken away from the Emperor and Anakin.
Viewing the movies all together, I am left speechless with awe at the creativity that went into this Galaxy far Far Away. I thank George Lucas for a truly incredible story, and for conluded or should I say connecting the series so masterfully. For those of you who insist n whining like a little Tatooine farm boy. Grow up.

» Posted by Frustrated Fan at May 25, 2005 01:51 AM

Oh, and as for hiding the relationship...
They waited ill the politicians were walking away and they were in the shadows. Next time, watch the movie with your eyes open.
Secondly, listen as well. They made it clear that Anakin had been away a longtime in battle, so he is not living with her. He does apparently spend a few nights there while he is back on tatooine, but whoa...now everyone knows? Don't think so. This is where your eyes come into play again. Coruscant is a large planet and is one large city. How in the world could one small apartment go unnoticed? Use your brain man. Next- Why didn't she know about the twins? Um, the Galaxy is at war... She is a senator during a difficult time, perhaps a doctor's visit was not her first priority. Or, she was waiting for her husband. Or, like many today, they want to wait to find out to be suprised. Do we have to be force fed everything?
The action was great. Yeah there are movies that do it better, but who cares? The problem with movies today is that they feel they have to top one another- which cheapens it. If you like the movies with more of that crap, go see that movie and shut up. I get sick of stupid reviews. George wisely set out, not to cmpete with what is out there. He is above that. He came to tell a good story, and he accomplished that. The acting was decent. Oh, you didn't like it. Boo-hoo. Record your conversations during a day's time and you'll see that the dialogue is more realistic than you think.Not everyone goes through life incredibly dramatic. Some sound awkward or just plain ridiculous.

» Posted by Bob at May 25, 2005 02:07 AM

Bob makes an excellent point, one that I certainly hadn't considered--the dialogue, while painful in move-type contexts could most certainly be construed as "realistic." George Lucas is a computer geek and a businessman, not a scriptwriter. Naturally, his dialogue is bound to be a lot closer to "real life" talking. Excellent observation Bob.

Remember, too...these are kids stories folks. Lucas always made Star Wars movies with children as the target audience. The fact that adults get into and form heavy opinions about them(one way or another) is an interesting ocurrence. :D

» Posted by Danohk at May 27, 2005 12:26 AM

Star Wars fans are funny.

It's a movie. Get Over It.

» Posted by dave at May 27, 2005 12:49 AM

I felt that the plot holes were necessary, since they are leading upto the actual movies done 30 years ago. For ex, Padme had to die, Anakin had to become Darth Vader. And the whole replublic becomes a dictatorship. My main gripe is that the collective mind of the Jedi could not feel that the Senator Palpatine is the Sith Lord, other than the fact that most of them have that uneasy feeling one gets after a heavy lunch. And why isn't anyone talking about Sam Jackson's bad role/acting job? he is forever constipated in the movie and if he could defeat the Sith lord himself, did he have to take a few hacks with him to die for the hell of it? Where's the force when you really need it?
questions questions. I think that if a movie provokes questions, then it's a good movie. Ever seen Startship Troopers. Other than why did I pay 8 bucks for it, does anyone else have another question about the movie? exactly!
Good discussion. But let's not use the profanity crutch please. :-)
-Sri

» Posted by sri at May 27, 2005 12:12 PM

ROTS was my favorite star wars film. the dialogue is not bad, it is stylized, and there were far fewer laughable, cliched, or simply ridiculus lines than can be found in other films with intentionaly stylized dialogue like the LOTR trilogy.

» Posted by montgomery at May 31, 2005 03:17 PM

WHAT AM I HEARING? Starship troopers has more brains, going on in it's Heinlen-diluted scripte than most of the other space-shootem-up films out there.

The dictatorship/totalitarianism, the satire of 'conservative good taste, war propaganda, war-film cliches.

I've taken a lot of flack about it over the years, but Starship Troopers is a quality blockbuster with at least a moderate amount of brains...I keep coming back to it...

» Posted by Kurt at May 31, 2005 04:19 PM

I won't even begin to go into the multiple instances of bad grammer in the above post.

Suffice it to say, those who knock Starship Troopers as a 'big/dumb' action film are very much missing the subtext all over that film.

» Posted by Kurt at May 31, 2005 04:22 PM

:O I saw it and the bad acting did suck but the battle scenes made up for it!!!

» Posted by Jarrett at June 4, 2005 12:29 PM

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